Var debate 2019/20

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

I may be mistaken, but why are you measuring the length of that grass panel? Doesn’t your offside line need to be parallel with the line at the top of the 18yd box? That’s a true perpendicular to direction of play. The grass panels are clearly crooked and warped (look at the one inside the 18). Appears to me if your line were parallel with the top of the 18, then stones is behind it as salah breaks it.

You cannot use any reference on the pitch because the accuracy of the lines and grass cuts are not checked by the officials before the game. Secondly the angle of the camera needs to take into effect perspective in all 3 planes, the "width" of a band of grass will narrow in the z-plane when looking directly behind it but will also be affected when looking slightly to the side in the x-plane and when looking from above in the y-plane, therefore rendering attempts to measure proportions of the grass band forward and behind a player inconsistent. Thirdly, all this only works with a completely flat & totally level pitch. Finally the image is not of sufficient resolution to make such a measurement.

The decision should be made using the technology developed to judge such matters as this is then consistent for each team and each game. The fact that there are no VAR images suggests it wasn't working and therefore the game has a major problem because some teams are getting decisions in their favour and others are not being given that opportunity. The fact that this has not yet been disclosed further suggests a cover up that the technology is not fit for purpose and we should return to the previous system immediately. The clubs affected need to start legal proceedings to force the matter.

 

[bondsman]

That’s not what I was saying at all, you’re getting lost in your thought processes.

I was purely talking about the Salah offside incident, and saying that I STILL now today want to see an official working off the lines to show whether he was offside or not. I still haven’t seen it and can’t believe it gets lost in all this that it hasn’t been shown to us as yet.

Apologies if I misunderstood your post. I believe the reason it hasn’t been shown is linked to my response though, as someone has deemed it unhelpful to show he was offside and that the game was being manipulated to help Liverpool take a 2-0 lead against,at that point, the run of play. To fix football matches you have to control the goals scored. VAR is the perfect means for doing so.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I may be mistaken, but why are you measuring the length of that grass panel? Doesn’t your offside line need to be parallel with the line at the top of the 18yd box? That’s a true perpendicular to direction of play. The grass panels are clearly crooked and warped (look at the one inside the 18). Appears to me if your line were parallel with the top of the 18, then stones is behind it as salah breaks it.

The white "offside" line needs to be parallel with the goal line and the penalty area and the half way line. The way it is drawn, it is.

If you drew the white line so that it is parallel on screen with the penalty box, it would be all wrong.

 

[Rammy Blue]

Yes. I am merely making the point that he was actually on side.

Here's the evidence. Note a few things:

1. The ball is leaving Robertsons foot (you can see the yellow blur). The microsecond before, when Robertson first touches the ball, Salah is further on side.
2. The red and blue lines top and bottom are to show that the white "offside" line is correctly drawn. The ratios of the red line to the blue line are the same, top and bottom.
3. Salah's furthest point forward is his knee and this is clear behind Stones' foot. (Click image for bigger picture)

Again, none of this excuses the lack of VAR scrutiny. They did not scrutinise it, in case it proved to be offside, IMO.

I agree mate with most you’ve written and showed, however imo the Salah knee is ahead of that white line.

Considering you are talking about technology then surely you’ve got to appreciate that in the 3D world his knee is at a different position than the line you’ve chosen to draw from Stones’ big toe which is along the ground?

 

[Rammy Blue]

If you look at Salah’s foot and see how far that is behind the white line, then look at how far ahead of his foot his knee is, then I’m confident his knee is ahead of that white line.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I agree mate with most you’ve written and showed, however imo the Salah knee is ahead of that white line.

Considering you are talking about technology then surely you’ve got to appreciate that in the 3D world his knee is at a different position than the line you’ve chosen to draw from Stones’ big toe which is along the ground?

I see your point, and I agree it's hard to tell. My feeling is that he's probably *just* onside still, but it's mighty close. Certainly too close to be decide in 30 seconds with no evidence provided whatsoever.

One thing is for sure. If it was Sergio, he'd have been given offside. On that I think we are all agreed.

 

[spiny]

The white "offside" line needs to be parallel with the goal line and the penalty area and the half way line. The way it is drawn, it is.

If you drew the white line so that it is parallel on screen with the penalty box, it would be all wrong.

Strange post.

In real time it looked offside to me on tv. I have yet to see forensic evidence he was onside. Where was the VAR analysis? Instead we have the same arbitrary interpretations that have been proven to be unreliable and inconsistent. All credibility was lost with the clear and obvious hand ball incidents prior to their first goal and the penalty area push on Sterling. Also the referees failure to deal with persistant fouling by Liverpool.

Officials are there to make decisions except the laws and their interpretation are being changed week to week and VAR is being used as a smokescreen when clearly not fit for purpose. You cannot flip between VAR and officials with decisions. Seems you are defending the indefensible.

 

[blueinsa]

If you look at Salah’s foot and see how far that is behind the white line, then look at how far ahead of his foot his knee is, then I’m confident his knee is ahead of that white line.

Bang on. The clip uploaded the other day which you also posted in which someone has put a grid on and taken it back parallel with the box clearly shows his knee to be offside.

Still if he is onside as per the VAR footage lets see it, im all eyes.........

 

[meltonblue]

Disagree mate. If Var checks every goal then two handballs in the build up, one leading directly to the pass that created Liverpool’s break leaving city players upfield appealing, should’ve resulted in the game being pulled back. I imagine the twats in stock let park laughing their cocks off as they chose not to interfere in an incident that allegedly this tech was created to resolve.

It isn’t an incident the tech was created to resolve though is my point. Oliver saw it and deemed it not deliberate handball, VAR isn’t going to give a different interpretation to him if he’s already seen it fully and judged it himself. Likewise, had he given the penalty, then VAR wouldn’t have overturned it either.

It’s not a VAR issue, it’s an onfield refereeing issue.

 

[Afterthefact]

The white "offside" line needs to be parallel with the goal line and the penalty area and the half way line. The way it is drawn, it is.

If you drew the white line so that it is parallel on screen with the penalty box, it would be all wrong.

I see, thank you.