Var debate 2019/20

[meltonblue]

Your view appears to be predicated on the basis that glaring errors (or worse) aren't made in relation to offside - think of Walker for Spurs v us a few years ago.

I think offside (there or thereabouts) falls into the same category as whether the ball has crossed the line; no-one is sensibly suggesting returning to a situation where that is determined on the pitch. The reason for this is the proliferation of cameras in stadiums which mean that an incorrect call (eg Frank Lampard) can definitively be exposed as such by tv, rather than being subject to some form of subjectivity, like a handball or a foul.

I draw that distinction and in those circumstances if the technology is there to get a binary choice correct then it should be deployed imo.

No, I think errors can absolutely be made, I just think that those can be more easily identified than having to need to go as far as VAR is going, particularly with the margin for error in it anyway. When those errors are made, to me there’d be no issue showing the entire thing on the screens in the stadium as everyone will able to see there’s been a mistake.

To me, it’s very existence has created this need to be absolute with it and I just don’t think it is needed, people sometimes forget the original intent behind the law. If you take the Sheffield United one at the weekend, spurs conceded that goal because of their own failings, not because the attackers toe was offside. VAR could have still been used as a quick check, and had they said it was level no one would have questioned it.

 

[TommyBenarbia]

I didn't post this earlier, but since you raise it. The verticle blue "wall" is the offside line. It's very hard to say from that that Salah is offside. It's close.

But again, I repeat, none of this debate excuses the fact that there was no proper review and no evidence provided. And Rammy makes the rather excellent point that were there any VAR evidence showing Salah conclusively to be onside, we'd have surely seen it by now. Anyway, FWIW:

Would it not make more sense to change the offside rule at the end of the season - like there needs to be daylight or something? I know that would have it's own can of worms to open but there has to be a better way?!

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Not if the right decision is made they wont.

Its very easy for VAR to be accepted within football and that is for it to be seen as fair and accurately used as per the laws of the game.

This isn't for the fans to implement and nor is it for them to be patient waiting for it to some how "evolve".

The PL waited a year to develop the tech and practice using it and so far they might as well have spent that time playing fucking scrabble they have made such a pigs ear of it.

So stop blaming fans and start holding to account those who are supposed to be impartial, experts, the best we have and who are highly fucking paid to apply the laws of the game in a fair and even handed manner.

Well said. I could not agree more. Had the current form of VAR been written on the back of a fag packet whilst Murphy, Shearer, and LIneker were debating the latest reffing fuck up I could understand the model that is currently employed. But to have taken time(?), effort(?) and, presumably some form of modelling(?), and fully informed referees how the system was to be employed(?) so that the percentage of correct decisions is increased and we are delivered of a set of results that match what went on during the games just beggars any kind of intelligent belief!

 

[BlueHammer85]

Not if the right decision is made they wont.

Its very easy for VAR to be accepted within football and that is for it to be seen as fair and accurately used as per the laws of the game.

This isn't for the fans to implement and nor is it for them to be patient waiting for it to some how "evolve".

The PL waited a year to develop the tech and practice using it and so far they might as well have spent that time playing fucking scrabble they have made such a pigs ear of it.

So stop blaming fans and start holding to account those who are supposed to be impartial, experts, the best we have and who are highly fucking paid to apply the laws of the game in a fair and even handed manner.

You will be happy with a pitch side monitor and a ref running over to check , in some cases could be every 15-20 mins ?

and if he gives a penalty which in your personal view looks a dive but the ref deems it as a foul, you would be ok with that ?

it's easy to say 'if they get the right decision, then fine' but how often do we see decisions given, even on a replay many many times and still not conclusive enough for the fan and pundits etc.

 

[blueinsa]

You will be happy with a pitch side monitor and a ref running over to check , in some cases could be every 15-20 mins ?

and if he gives a penalty which in your personal view looks a dive but the ref deems it as a foul, you would be ok with that ?

it's easy to say 'if they get the right decision, then fine' but how often do we see decisions given, even on a replay many many times and still not conclusive enough for the fan and pundits etc.

Yes id be happy with all that and as for time taken, we have an impartial game clock that stops when the ball is out of play or when VAR or injuries are being treated because the game is 90 mins, fans pay for 90 mins and they should get 90 mins.

Takes another way for the ref to cheat out as well as he ignores a sides time wasting or adds whatever he needs to add to allow certain teams time to possibly score.

The laws of the game dictate decisions, not refs who think they are personalities or the size of the game or the history behind it, the laws of the game.

 

[Tommy_Catons_Perm]

Here we are, 48 hours later trying to draw lines on photographs and take measurements etc. Meanwhile, back at Anfield,
the refereee is waiting for a decision to award a Liverpool goal or a free kick to City......

Shows how good VAR is. It only took 10 seconds on Sunday !!!

What was the reason for introducing the offide law?

 

[HypnoticBlue]

VAR is working exactly how the Premier League wanted it too, and they are able to control the results so they can dictate who wins, simple as that.
The fact that they are using it differently to the rest of the world, and they haven’t once used the pitch side monitor to enable the referee to make his decision shows us that he isn’t actually refereeing the game at all.
So despite saying that VAR wasn’t there to re-referee the game, that’s exactly what is happening, giving you Scudamore’s Strategy.
It’s rendering it pointless to turn up for a game to shout your support, and robbing the fans of real goal celebrations, unless of course your team know they have a win earmarked for them.
It was nice to see us have a good 8 years, but we don’t fit into their requirements.

CTID

 

[inchy14]

Not defending any of them - i'm saying those that agree with Motson would soon change their mind when a ref is running to a monitor every 10mins to check on a debatable decision.

What, like they do all over the rest of the world where VAR has been implemented? They have made sure that the referee has a get out clause over here, no one has any idea who is really making the decision and under what pressure.

Anyway i still need someone to explain how Salah's goal was decided to be ok within 15 seconds of him scoring when every other tight offside call has taken 2-4 minutes to be decided.

 

[LWashington]

fine, let's go with his way -


Kane/salah, whoever - goes down in the box, ref gives pen.. BOOOOOOOO ''Fuck off ref, cheating corrupt c*nt''

ref runs over to check monitor ''this is a joke, paying money to watch a ref go to the monitor BOOOOO''

ref checking monitor ''BOOOOO how much longer is he going to take! ''

Ref checks and see's player was clipped, gives a pen ''BOOO! Corruption!! , this is the end of the game for me, never going again''

Whatever we think, I would rather have the incident judged by the 4 officials at the pich (and a pitch side monitor if needed) than an unaccountable person X miles away in Stockley Park. Plus before you start I agree with the second part, people in the ground who've paid there money need to be advised of what the hell is going on as much as the TV viewer or else "what's the point of going to games".

 

[BlueHammer85]

Yes id be happy with all that and as for time taken, we have an impartial game clock that stops when the ball is out of play or when VAR or injuries are being treated because the game is 90 mins, fans pay for 90 mins and they should get 90 mins.

Takes another way for the ref to cheat out as well as he ignores a sides time wasting or adds whatever he needs to add to allow certain teams time to possibly score.

The laws of the game dictate decisions, not refs who think they are personalities or the size of the game or the history behind it, the laws of the game.

good that you'd be happy, but you'll be surrounded by thousands of fans booing the ref every time he runs to the monitor and throughout his check. it would get the same level of outcry when a VAR check comes on the monitor.