VAR Discussion Thread | 2024/25

[Father Paul]

LOL "regardless of the rules". As if the rules aren't open to interpretation. If it was as clear as you think it is, then surely VAR would have sent him off. But yet they didn't! Hmmm.

I'm not defending the keeper. He clearly committed a handball. I just don't see it as foul play or something deserving of being sent off for. And I'm know I'm alone on this, I'm quite comfortable about that too lol. Sometimes i go against the grain, as I am here. I can just sympathize with the keeper trying to clear it out, something he normally does. He just "lost his bearings" lol I like that.

Sorry no. The keeper knows his box like the back of his hand. He took a chance and got away with one. Whether it was intentional is largely irrelevant he prevented a goal scoring opportunity. I'm fairly certain Kovacic didn’t mean to get a red card as he responded instinctively to a situation last night and was correctly sent off by the ref. The match officials, apparently missed Hendersons transgression and it was the VAR teams job to correct this. They failed in this task miserably.

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

You tell me why var didn't follow the rules

Because it's . . . ( ). Not just VAR but the whole way they're doing things nowadays. And that includes much of the laws of the game, many of which were change to help VAR work. BENT!

 

[lust overlord]

You tell me why var didn't follow the rules

They did follow the rules,well sort of,they made up a mitigating factor.
And ruled on that.

We can guess why, incompetence or corruption.

 

[Father Paul]

There is no opinion. If the keeper handles the ball outside his box it's a free kick. If the keeper in doing so stops a clear goal chance it's a red card.

It really doesn't matter if the keeper lost his bearings it's still a foul and a red card. We could argue that 90% of fouls aren't meant, so should those be ignored ?

Some fools on here can't understand basic logic. It was a Red Card 100 per cent. They should shut to fuck up and stop defending the indefensible.

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

Sorry no. The keeper knows his box like the back of his hand. He took a chance and got away with one. Whether it was intentional is largely irrelevant he prevented a goal scoring opportunity. I'm fairly certain Kovacic didn’t mean to get a red card as he responded instinctively to a situation last night and was correctly sent off by the ref. The match officials, apparently missed Hendersons transgression and it was the VAR teams job to correct this. They failed in this task miserably.

If you haven't noticed by now, VAR fails miserably pretty much on a match to match basis. And that aside, the delays are often insufferable. That's why so many are calling for it to be scrapped. I mean, for Wayne Rooney to sympathize with City there and proceed to call VAR to be scrapped as a result of discussing it, that speaks volumes.

All I'm saying is I'm (as in me personally) sympathetic to the keeper there in thinking that a red would be "harsh" as I consider intent. That doesn't mean I'm claiming that justifies not giving a red card if that's the way the laws are worded. I'm just giving my personal take on the situation. I look at intent in a situation there even if the football powers that be do not or aren't supposed to.

But I would also point out that the official way of doing things is not exactly working seamlessly now is it, so my alternative viewpoint should not be shot down so quickly given the glaring problems with the "official" way of doing things. I would also point out, what I said earlier, that I do not believe it was that they apparently missed Hendersons "transgression" as in the handball itself, but rather that it was that they (for one reason or another) were unwilling to conclude that it was worthy of a red card, so as a result they were unable to correct the factual component of it. Which in my view is problematic, because regardless of if that should be a red card or not, as I pointed out, you shouldn't need it to be a red card for the situation to be otherwise corrected with a free kick given. That was my point, lost on many it would seem. Anotherwords, my issue is with VAR's uselessness and pointless "red tape" as it were in a situation like that.

 

[Barcon]

Some fools on here can't understand basic logic. It was a Red Card 100 per cent. They should shut to fuck up and stop defending the indefensible.

Then who would bore the fucking cock off me?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I'm not talking nonsense. I'm making very salient points it's just that you see it differently. We agree that his arm was outside the area and it should have been a free kick. No argument there. It's a matter of whether it would be deserving of a red card. The VARs didn't think so apparently for whatever reason. If their reasoning was that they didn't think it was a DOAGSO then that logic is problematic because I do agree with ya'll that it clearly was. And I know what that is supposed to mean. All I'm saying is that I can sympathize with the keeper being so close to the edge of the box. I don't think his well thought out "intent" was to commit a handball. He was trying to get back into the box before swatting it and in that moment instincts kicked in.

So I can't conclude that it was a "deliberate" handball due to the fact that he did well enough to get his body back into the box before swatting it. Still a foul, still should have been a free kick, maybe even a card. I'm not just comfortable sending him off like that. But that's just me. That's just my interpretation of it giving the benefit of the doubt to the keeper. As far as a defender making a tackle being a natural thing to do, yeah sure, but in order for a tackle to not to be a foul, he can't contact the defender. He needs to be "playing the ball" in order to avoid committing a foul let alone being booked. So trying to equate tackling to a keeper swatting a ball is a bit much. Both can be natural acts but there are ways in which you can do it legally and ways in which you can't. In the keeper's case, it was simply where he was whilst doing what he did, vs a tackle which he could only be red carded if he completely misses the ball and actually takes his guy out.

His body wasn't in the box , his foot was clearly across the line. Do you actually think he accidentally swatted the ball ? No it was a deliberate movement by his arm. Regardless the rules don't consider whether someone accidentally or intentionally committed that act, it's the act itself that the decision is made on.

 

[danielwood5]

It's more about what happens first. Does the slider tackle contact the attacker first, or is he playing the ball and getting to the ball first before contacting any part of the attacker? In this case he did not contact Silva before getting to the ball first.

Why do you think that penalty in the 2018 World Cup between Senegal and Colombia was overturned? For the exact reason that you're trying to deny is important. He got to the ball first.

No, it's not.
Show me the section in the Laws of the Game that states that a defender can brush against the ball and also take out the attacker. Not an example from 7 years ago, the current rules as are written.

 

[salfordbluetrue]

So that's.
it then same as last years FA cup final, City get cheated out of a win, but it is good for football, the old VAR ref double tag that has been going on all season. On average the ref waves play on 4 times for City a match, it does not matter if there is an advantage, just that the ball has gone to a City player, he does this for the opposition every other game, the same applies for bookings, with the ref 40x more likely to book a player if he stops the game.
This formula has served the PL well as the chance % over 38 games makes any complaint expensive, as a charge of bringing the game into disrespect could well be bigger.
This is the FA cup final, the most prestigious domestic competition in the world, and as such we can expect the best refs and VAR, so now we should demand the immediate, sacking of all officials at the match and VAR s personnel, not the suspension, this is gross negligence on the appliance of the laws and communication, it is unlikely that PGMOL will accept this, but this is a case of clear and obvious red card, this being a one off match with the opposition playing without their first choice keeper, and down to 10 men, for a long period of time raises the chance % to around 75%,, 10s of £ millions in prize money for club and staff
Which is why if PGMOL do not sack their staff, City should sue PGMOL, unlike last year City do have them by the bollocks.

 

[salfordbluetrue]

If you haven't noticed by now, VAR fails miserably pretty much on a match to match basis. And that aside, the delays are often insufferable. That's why so many are calling for it to be scrapped. I mean, for Wayne Rooney to sympathize with City there and proceed to call VAR to be scrapped as a result of discussing it, that speaks volumes.

All I'm saying is I'm (as in me personally) sympathetic to the keeper there in thinking that a red would be "harsh" as I consider intent. That doesn't mean I'm claiming that justifies not giving a red card if that's the way the laws are worded. I'm just giving my personal take on the situation. I look at intent in a situation there even if the football powers that be do not or aren't supposed to.

But I would also point out that the official way of doing things is not exactly working seamlessly now is it, so my alternative viewpoint should not be shot down so quickly given the glaring problems with the "official" way of doing things. I would also point out, what I said earlier, that I do not believe it was that they apparently missed Hendersons "transgression" as in the handball itself, but rather that it was that they (for one reason or another) were unwilling to conclude that it was worthy of a red card, so as a result they were unable to correct the factual component of it. Which in my view is problematic, because regardless of if that should be a red card or not, as I pointed out, you shouldn't need it to be a red card for the situation to be otherwise corrected with a free kick given. That was my point, lost on many it would seem. Anotherwords, my issue is with VAR's uselessness and pointless "red tape" as it were in a situation like that.

there are a lot of people calling for VAR to be scrapped, but they are the ones blaming VAR and not it`s operators, if it goes then there is no one putting right those mistakes, deliberate or otherwise, how about we just get rid of the people making the mistakes with VAR

 

[lust overlord]

there are a lot of people calling for VAR to be scrapped, but they are the ones blaming VAR and not it`s operators, if it goes then there is no one putting right those mistakes, deliberate or otherwise, how about we just get rid of the people making the mistakes with VAR

Well said.
A good start would be.
The refs and the var ops micd up so the whole process is open to scrutiny in real time,as has been suggested numerous times.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

So that's.
it then same as last years FA cup final, City get cheated out of a win, but it is good for football, the old VAR ref double tag that has been going on all season. On average the ref waves play on 4 times for City a match, it does not matter if there is an advantage, just that the ball has gone to a City player, he does this for the opposition every other game, the same applies for bookings, with the ref 40x more likely to book a player if he stops the game.
This formula has served the PL well as the chance % over 38 games makes any complaint expensive, as a charge of bringing the game into disrespect could well be bigger.
This is the FA cup final, the most prestigious domestic competition in the world, and as such we can expect the best refs and VAR, so now we should demand the immediate, sacking of all officials at the match and VAR s personnel, not the suspension, this is gross negligence on the appliance of the laws and communication, it is unlikely that PGMOL will accept this, but this is a case of clear and obvious red card, this being a one off match with the opposition playing without their first choice keeper, and down to 10 men, for a long period of time raises the chance % to around 75%,, 10s of £ millions in prize money for club and staff
Which is why if PGMOL do not sack their staff, City should sue PGMOL, unlike last year City do have them by the bollocks.

Can’t believe the club haven’t said anything publicly. I hope they have at least bothered to ring Red Howard up and give him a bollocking

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

there are a lot of people calling for VAR to be scrapped, but they are the ones blaming VAR and not it`s operators, if it goes then there is no one putting right those mistakes, deliberate or otherwise, how about we just get rid of the people making the mistakes with VAR

For me its not the operators it is VAR. Just it's presence has changed the game, and refereeing for the worse.

Doesn't matter who they have operating it we will still not know what handball is, we will still have micro analysis of every little decision point. We will still get VAR making errors. That's because it's human nature.

So get rid of VAR and all the politics around it and let the ref get back to doing what he is supposed to.... because even that has changed.

Football is an art not a science.

I am predicting they will never ever get it right.

When do you think we will be at the point where it works and the public are happy with it?

 

[Betterdeedthan red]

For me its not the operators it is VAR. Just it's presence has changed the game, and refereeing for the worse.

Doesn't matter who they have operating it we will still not know what handball is, we will still have micro analysis of every little decision point. We will still get VAR making errors. That's because it's human nature.

So get rid of VAR and all the politics around it and let the ref get back to doing what he is supposed to.... because even that has changed.

Football is an art not a science.

I am predicting they will never ever get it right.

When do you think we will be at the point where it works and the public are happy with it?

Completely agree.
For match going fans it's awful.
It's been the final thing for me.

 

[manimanc]

Let's see how "decisions" go tonight.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Completely agree.
For match going fans it's awful.
It's been the final thing for me.

On TV, after a goal is scored....... "We're hearing that VAR might have an issue"

For me its almost PTSD, I expect them words every goal. Last night even after Marmoush goal.. It literally could be anything. (It used to be the dreaded words offside). Now, it is every little thing involved in the goal. Its spoiling the sport, its doing its best to make absolutely every single decision correct but instead it interrupting the flow and fairness and integrity of the game.

Its micro analysis and it has no place in our sport.

 

[Betterdeedthan red]

On TV, after a goal is scored....... "We're hearing that VAR might have an issue"

For me its almost PTSD, I expect them words every goal. Last night even after Marmoush goal.. It literally could be anything. (It used to be the dreaded words offside). Now, it is every little thing involved in the goal. Its spoiling the sport, its doing its best to make absolutely every single decision correct but instead it interrupting the flow and fairness and integrity of the game.

Its micro analysis and it has no place in our sport.

I've been twice this season.
I can't imagine going again really.
No var and lower prices I would.
definitely

 

[Father Paul]

If you haven't noticed by now, VAR fails miserably pretty much on a match to match basis. And that aside, the delays are often insufferable. That's why so many are calling for it to be scrapped. I mean, for Wayne Rooney to sympathize with City there and proceed to call VAR to be scrapped as a result of discussing it, that speaks volumes.

All I'm saying is I'm (as in me personally) sympathetic to the keeper there in thinking that a red would be "harsh" as I consider intent. That doesn't mean I'm claiming that justifies not giving a red card if that's the way the laws are worded. I'm just giving my personal take on the situation. I look at intent in a situation there even if the football powers that be do not or aren't supposed to.

But I would also point out that the official way of doing things is not exactly working seamlessly now is it, so my alternative viewpoint should not be shot down so quickly given the glaring problems with the "official" way of doing things. I would also point out, what I said earlier, that I do not believe it was that they apparently missed Hendersons "transgression" as in the handball itself, but rather that it was that they (for one reason or another) were unwilling to conclude that it was worthy of a red card, so as a result they were unable to correct the factual component of it. Which in my view is problematic, because regardless of if that should be a red card or not, as I pointed out, you shouldn't need it to be a red card for the situation to be otherwise corrected with a free kick given. That was my point, lost on many it would seem. Anotherwords, my issue is with VAR's uselessness and pointless "red tape" as it were in a situation like

I am not advocating for VAR to be scrapped but rather it made a bad decision in this case. The persons responsible should receive appropriate punishment. They probably won't
The goalkeeper knows he can be sent off if he handles the ball outside the box trying to stop an opponent control the ball. It is fairly precise, just like offside. You can be a yard offside or a millimetre offside, no matter, you get the same punishment. Now what makes this case so clear-cut is the fact that the keepers hand extended well beyond the allowed zone. Your argument regarding intent is irrelevant not only because it is, as in the case of offside immaterial, but also because he clearly chanced his, literal arm, and got away with it.
Finally, I would be opposed to getting VAR more involved in making decisions but rather to try to improve accuracy. Not easy but can be achieved.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

anyone... When do you think we will be at the point where it works and the public are happy with it?

Its been yonks now, so when will it be fit for purpose? What year?

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

His body wasn't in the box

Uh . . .

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GrKkhcZWUAAeMnW?format=jpg&name=large

is foot was clearly across the line.

Foot was stepping on the line, arm and hand was across, rest of his body was in. Lets get that straight at least.

Do you actually think he accidentally swatted the ball ? No it was a deliberate movement by his arm.

No, he intentionally swatted it. My argument was that he *may* not have been sure exactly where he was because his eyes were focused on the ball and the attacker, not precisely where he was. He made a considerable effort to try to retreat back into the box before making the action, and he did get his body back in. The arm movement to swat at it there was largely instinctual. Football isn't played in slow motion. Such things happen quickly.

Regardless the rules don't consider whether someone accidentally or intentionally committed that act, it's the act itself that the decision is made on.

I understand that. Clearly he hand balled it and it should have resulted in a free kick. Yet for one reason or another, VAR was unable to correct that simple problem.