VAR Discussion Thread | 2024/25

surprisedbygrass said:
They have lost the plot . The whole calamity is revealing the absolute drift away from the foundational values of football . It's no longer a sport, it's a product for the entertainment business .

For over a century spectators have found sanctuary from the chaos and unfairness of daily life by supporting a team. Trapsing along to stand on concrete steps in all weathers with a poor view to watch twenty two men skid , slide and suffer and somehow wrench beauty out of the dire conditions both players and fans tolerate .

For ninety minutes we could live in a world of clear rules and rapid decisions, with the tantalising possibility of ecstacy or devastation at any moment . Poor decisions happened , whether through human error or corruption , but the experience of ninety minutes of shared theatre, shared suffering was both bonding and enduring . Everyone understood the man in black was to be universally hated and noone questioned their authority . Humans are human after all . Pure theatre as an escape from the travails of real life

Television changed everything with "action replays" seeking truth but implying perfection in decision making in a game that lives and breathes dynamism and flow . Then we got monetisation, wall to wall coverage , pundits , post match interviews with irate managers, all undermining decisions that mere humans made in real time . Along comes social media with it's acid with and savvy creators and television has to double down on outrage and controversy and the TV audience lap it up . During this media war those of us who go to matches are forgotten and kept in the dark . We no longer matter. . The real action is elsewhere at home , in a pub or on the internet where social media creators memes go viral before the final whistle and one controversy has got more heft than anyone at the ground has any clue about .

For referees VAR was supposed to be the answer to this deluge of criticism . But by then the game had sold it's soul to television and it's need for daily outrage . These controversial decisions are cat nip for the media and the media controls every aspect of the game .

If it wanted to it could fund an analytical investigation into the data around VAR , penalties and disallowed goals , red cards and share this to calm things down . But we are living in an age of the entertainment wars , opinion and drama always winning over facts ....and in more important arenas than football . The handball rule adjustments in the last few years have the same tone as the cobbled together FFP / PSR chaos. Don't panic , Captain Mannering . It doesn't matter that no one understands them . In fact it creates more controversy and content . Job done .

All that said I will still keep going to matches , still chase the thrill of a sublime moment , still enjoy the camaraderie and banter. But my patience is wearing thin .
Click to expand...
Cracking post.
 
surprisedbygrass said:
They have lost the plot . The whole calamity is revealing the absolute drift away from the foundational values of football . It's no longer a sport, it's a product for the entertainment business .

For over a century spectators have found sanctuary from the chaos and unfairness of daily life by supporting a team. Trapsing along to stand on concrete steps in all weathers with a poor view to watch twenty two men skid , slide and suffer and somehow wrench beauty out of the dire conditions both players and fans tolerate .

For ninety minutes we could live in a world of clear rules and rapid decisions, with the tantalising possibility of ecstacy or devastation at any moment . Poor decisions happened , whether through human error or corruption , but the experience of ninety minutes of shared theatre, shared suffering was both bonding and enduring . Everyone understood the man in black was to be universally hated and noone questioned their authority . Humans are human after all . Pure theatre as an escape from the travails of real life

Television changed everything with "action replays" seeking truth but implying perfection in decision making in a game that lives and breathes dynamism and flow . Then we got monetisation, wall to wall coverage , pundits , post match interviews with irate managers, all undermining decisions that mere humans made in real time . Along comes social media with it's acid with and savvy creators and television has to double down on outrage and controversy and the TV audience lap it up . During this media war those of us who go to matches are forgotten and kept in the dark . We no longer matter. . The real action is elsewhere at home , in a pub or on the internet where social media creators memes go viral before the final whistle and one controversy has got more heft than anyone at the ground has any clue about .

For referees VAR was supposed to be the answer to this deluge of criticism . But by then the game had sold it's soul to television and it's need for daily outrage . These controversial decisions are cat nip for the media and the media controls every aspect of the game .

If it wanted to it could fund an analytical investigation into the data around VAR , penalties and disallowed goals , red cards and share this to calm things down . But we are living in an age of the entertainment wars , opinion and drama always winning over facts ....and in more important arenas than football . The handball rule adjustments in the last few years have the same tone as the cobbled together FFP / PSR chaos. Don't panic , Captain Mannering . It doesn't matter that no one understands them . In fact it creates more controversy and content . Job done .

All that said I will still keep going to matches , still chase the thrill of a sublime moment , still enjoy the camaraderie and banter. But my patience is wearing thin .
Click to expand...
You are completely correct when you say - It's no longer a sport, it's a product for the entertainment business.
How can it be anything else?
The Premier League is, or will soon be nothing but an entertainment entity, no longer a vehicle for Sport (similar to Sky Sports News I.e not a News channel, purely for entertainment, and therefore truth not really necessary).
I have it on very very good authority that PGMOL (employed by the Premier League) are selective in appointing officials to matches that will likely be decisive in the title race. For good reason I can not expand, and won’t. Be assured though, the ‘product’ is already more important than the sport.
VAR is just part of the great plan. Do not be fooled.
 
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stonerblue said:
Ffs. That has always been a foul.
Click to expand...
Not since they made it a subjective decision.

Simply put, another way the referee can put pressure on a penalty taker by making them take the kick again if they alone deem the incursion into the penalty area affects the goalkeeper. 100% subjective and wide open to manipulation.
 
TheBlueCat said:
You are completely correct when you say - It's no longer a sport, it's a product for the entertainment business.
How can it be anything else?
The Premier League is, or will soon be nothing but an entertainment entity, no longer a vehicle for Sport (similar to Sky Sports News I.e not a News channel, purely for entertainment, and therefore truth not really necessary).
I have it on very very good authority that PMMOL (employed by the Premier League) are selective in appointing officials to matches that will likely be decisive in the title race. For good reason I can not expand, and won’t. Be assured though, the ‘product’ is already more important than the sport.
VAR is just part of the great plan. Do not be fooled.
Click to expand...
Even if your last point cannot be proved/confirmed, I am confident that there are many of us ( myself included obviously ) that believe the point you make.

PiGMOL is a corrupt organisation imo, especially as it is funded by the PL who have a huge investment in outcomes.

Some of their highly dubious "decisions" absolutely reek of collusion, Henderson's non-red card for Palace in the Cup Final for instance, but perhaps I am just a biased and blinkered Blue ?
 
Colin Bells Boots said:
Even if your last point cannot be proved/confirmed, I am confident that there are many of us ( myself included obviously ) that believe the point you make.

PiGMOL is a corrupt organisation imo, especially as it is funded by the PL who have a huge investment in outcomes.

Some of their highly dubious "decisions" absolutely reek of collusion, Henderson's non-red card for Palace in the Cup Final for instance, but perhaps I am just a biased and blinkered Blue ?
Click to expand...
I freely admit being a biased blue. The example you site showcases how decisions can be manipulated. I have not heard a credible excuse or explanation for that.
However, it does not figure in my assertion that PGMOL put certain officials on matches with the knowledge that it will affect results. Genuinely pains me as I have been a football fan all my life involved in all aspects of the game since being a kid..
Sadly it isn’t football any more. By the way my (impeccable) source told me years ago that VAR was here to stay and will only be more involved in years to come. He has been proven correct. If I could tell you the stuff I am told you would pull your hair out. Incidentally, I don’t believe that any of the current officials are corrupt but they are employed by PGMOL (Premier League) and toe the line..
 
Colin Bells Boots said:
Even if your last point cannot be proved/confirmed, I am confident that there are many of us ( myself included obviously ) that believe the point you make.

PiGMOL is a corrupt organisation imo, especially as it is funded by the PL who have a huge investment in outcomes.

Some of their highly dubious "decisions" absolutely reek of collusion, Henderson's non-red card for Palace in the Cup Final for instance, but perhaps I am just a biased and blinkered Blue ?
Click to expand...
What the PGMOL and the Premier League have turned into as a result of VAR is something that at the very least gives a far greater impression of corruption than was the case before, say a decade ago before VAR was rolled out.

And while I certainly wouldn't want to do anything to excuse how the PGMOL or how the PL have gone about it since VAR has been implemented, I do think we need to remind ourselves that they essentially had VAR imposed on them by the FIFA.

Once FIFA standardized VAR at the 2018 World Cup, that sent a signal that this was the way forward and that leagues would be incentivized to adopt it in order to stay relevant moving into the future.

Remember that before the 2018 World Cup, VAR was not popular and the PL voted against implementing it.

www.theguardian.com

Premier League clubs vote against introducing VAR next season

Video assistant referee technology will not be used in the Premier League next season
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

The way minds were changed regarding this were curious as VAR had its fair share of controversies in the 2018 World Cup. But it was presented in a such a way that seemed to give them the excuse to demand its implementation throughout world leagues.

When you read the concerns that the PL had about it when they voted to not implement VAR, the same concerns are issues to this day. There was no mystery as to why this wouldn't work and why this would be a problem. They knew full well that this was a pending disaster long before they ever implemented it. But they were essentially coerced by FIFA through a peer pressure campaign following that WC and since then the PL and PGMOL as an extension have been scrambling to try to make this work and tweak it as it goes along. But it's not as if the PL came up with this idea on their own, and they tried to do it their own way to an extent which caused more problems.

But I think it's clear to anyone paying attention that their hearts aren't in it with VAR. The PL and plenty of other leagues have essentially been strung along by FIFA to pull football off its moorings and they are being paid good money by those with too much of it (FIFA) to keep their VAR agenda at the forefront.

The PL had the correct instinct to vote agaisnt it in April 2018. That was before FIFA showcased VAR to the World at the World Cup and using that as a model caused a domino effect of leagues to adopt it following that. The PL resisted and that was the PL I respected. They saw the problems of VAR, clearly, and realized this would be a bad idea.

The PL had their minds changed on VAR over the course of 2018 and while they absolutely made the wrong decision to cave and to go from against it to for it over that year, it is important to remember that it was not as if anyone in the PL came up with VAR on its own or thought it would be a good idea. They had it imposed on them like countless other leagues, but the PL was the one league with enough prestige and pull to have been able to resist implementing it had they chose to stand up for football.

They really need to reevaluate their decision-making process in 2018 and what went into that, and get back to that traditionalist standard of ensuing that integrity is upheld. Because it certainly felt like that at the time, that the PL would not be a staging ground for a controversial FIFA agenda. The sense was that English football fans would never accept something like VAR because they take pride in football playing played properly, the traditional way. That was essentially part of the brand of the PL and a big part of why it had such prestige. But that was all turned on its head when the PL announced they would be doing VAR, going against their previous vote just months before.

Even heading into the 2018-2019 season, after the WC, there was no indication VAR would ever be implemented. And then during that season, in November if I'm not mistaken, they out of nowhere announced that they would be doing VAR next season. The dread that came with that announcement has affected us all, all the fans, everyone involved in the sport really, players, managers. Whether you like VAR or not, what they did created this cloud over our great sport. And it is an unforgivable act to implement such a change to football and go about it as they have in such a pantomime manner to rob us of our joy again and again. We demand our joy returned, we demand VAR be sent off permanently!

It is entertainment we seek, and as a sport, but not to have our entertainment manipulated in a painstaking manner. We like to live in the moment, not to have our moments exploited and turned on their head!
 
Webb trying to justify no penalty for Arsenal against Newcastle is laughable. But now we all know a touch on the ball by the keeper is no pen. It was a clear and obvious error apparently. Pope played the ball cleanly and it was a coming together!
 
TheBeautifulGame said:
What the PGMOL and the Premier League have turned into as a result of VAR is something that at the very least gives a far greater impression of corruption than was the case before, say a decade ago before VAR was rolled out.

And while I certainly wouldn't want to do anything to excuse how the PGMOL or how the PL have gone about it since VAR has been implemented, I do think we need to remind ourselves that they essentially had VAR imposed on them by the FIFA.

Once FIFA standardized VAR at the 2018 World Cup, that sent a signal that this was the way forward and that leagues would be incentivized to adopt it in order to stay relevant moving into the future.

Remember that before the 2018 World Cup, VAR was not popular and the PL voted against implementing it.

www.theguardian.com

Premier League clubs vote against introducing VAR next season

Video assistant referee technology will not be used in the Premier League next season
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

The way minds were changed regarding this were curious as VAR had its fair share of controversies in the 2018 World Cup. But it was presented in a such a way that seemed to give them the excuse to demand its implementation throughout world leagues.

When you read the concerns that the PL had about it when they voted to not implement VAR, the same concerns are issues to this day. There was no mystery as to why this wouldn't work and why this would be a problem. They knew full well that this was a pending disaster long before they ever implemented it. But they were essentially coerced by FIFA through a peer pressure campaign following that WC and since then the PL and PGMOL as an extension have been scrambling to try to make this work and tweak it as it goes along. But it's not as if the PL came up with this idea on their own, and they tried to do it their own way to an extent which caused more problems.

But I think it's clear to anyone paying attention that their hearts aren't in it with VAR. The PL and plenty of other leagues have essentially been strung along by FIFA to pull football off its moorings and they are being paid good money by those with too much of it (FIFA) to keep their VAR agenda at the forefront.

The PL had the correct instinct to vote agaisnt it in April 2018. That was before FIFA showcased VAR to the World at the World Cup and using that as a model caused a domino effect of leagues to adopt it following that. The PL resisted and that was the PL I respected. They saw the problems of VAR, clearly, and realized this would be a bad idea.

The PL had their minds changed on VAR over the course of 2018 and while they absolutely made the wrong decision to cave and to go from against it to for it over that year, it is important to remember that it was not as if anyone in the PL came up with VAR on its own or thought it would be a good idea. They had it imposed on them like countless other leagues, but the PL was the one league with enough prestige and pull to have been able to resist implementing it had they chose to stand up for football.

They really need to reevaluate their decision-making process in 2018 and what went into that, and get back to that traditionalist standard of ensuing that integrity is upheld. Because it certainly felt like that at the time, that the PL would not be a staging ground for a controversial FIFA agenda. The sense was that English football fans would never accept something like VAR because they take pride in football playing played properly, the traditional way. That was essentially part of the brand of the PL and a big part of why it had such prestige. But that was all turned on its head when the PL announced they would be doing VAR, going against their previous vote just months before.

Even heading into the 2018-2019 season, after the WC, there was no indication VAR would ever be implemented. And then during that season, in November if I'm not mistaken, they out of nowhere announced that they would be doing VAR next season. The dread that came with that announcement has affected us all, all the fans, everyone involved in the sport really, players, managers. Whether you like VAR or not, what they did created this cloud over our great sport. And it is an unforgivable act to implement such a change to football and go about it as they have in such a pantomime manner to rob us of our joy again and again. We demand our joy returned, we demand VAR be sent off permanently!

It is entertainment we seek, and as a sport, but not to have our entertainment manipulated in a painstaking manner. We like to live in the moment, not to have our moments exploited and turned on their head!
Click to expand...

The PL may not have wanted VAR initially, but I believe that they have certainly run with it and used it to apply an influence over PiGMOL, in order to bring about outcomes and results for certain clubs, whilst less fashionable clubs get a "less favourable" treatment.

I will leave it at that, but I found your post very informative, so thank you for that.
 
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surprisedbygrass said:
They have lost the plot . The whole calamity is revealing the absolute drift away from the foundational values of football . It's no longer a sport, it's a product for the entertainment business .

For over a century spectators have found sanctuary from the chaos and unfairness of daily life by supporting a team. Trapsing along to stand on concrete steps in all weathers with a poor view to watch twenty two men skid , slide and suffer and somehow wrench beauty out of the dire conditions both players and fans tolerate .

For ninety minutes we could live in a world of clear rules and rapid decisions, with the tantalising possibility of ecstacy or devastation at any moment . Poor decisions happened , whether through human error or corruption , but the experience of ninety minutes of shared theatre, shared suffering was both bonding and enduring . Everyone understood the man in black was to be universally hated and noone questioned their authority . Humans are human after all . Pure theatre as an escape from the travails of real life

Television changed everything with "action replays" seeking truth but implying perfection in decision making in a game that lives and breathes dynamism and flow . Then we got monetisation, wall to wall coverage , pundits , post match interviews with irate managers, all undermining decisions that mere humans made in real time . Along comes social media with it's acid with and savvy creators and television has to double down on outrage and controversy and the TV audience lap it up . During this media war those of us who go to matches are forgotten and kept in the dark . We no longer matter. . The real action is elsewhere at home , in a pub or on the internet where social media creators memes go viral before the final whistle and one controversy has got more heft than anyone at the ground has any clue about .

For referees VAR was supposed to be the answer to this deluge of criticism . But by then the game had sold it's soul to television and it's need for daily outrage . These controversial decisions are cat nip for the media and the media controls every aspect of the game .

If it wanted to it could fund an analytical investigation into the data around VAR , penalties and disallowed goals , red cards and share this to calm things down . But we are living in an age of the entertainment wars , opinion and drama always winning over facts ....and in more important arenas than football . The handball rule adjustments in the last few years have the same tone as the cobbled together FFP / PSR chaos. Don't panic , Captain Mannering . It doesn't matter that no one understands them . In fact it creates more controversy and content . Job done .

All that said I will still keep going to matches , still chase the thrill of a sublime moment , still enjoy the camaraderie and banter. But my patience is wearing thin .
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
.db. said:
Before VAR came in, 82% of decisions made by officials were correct.
Since VAR has been introduced, 96% of decisions made have been correct.

It was always needed but we need to entice and train a better talent pool of officials because the current crop and depth of talent aren’t/isn’t good enough.

The technology itself is fine.
Click to expand...
Stats eh, can prove anything. Law interpretation is subjective so, one person's right is another's wrong
Aside from the recently introduced offside tech, there is little technology with VAR it's just a ref or two watching the match, using slow motion and freeze frame to identify offenses or not.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Not since they made it a subjective decision.

Simply put, another way the referee can put pressure on a penalty taker by making them take the kick again if they alone deem the incursion into the penalty area affects the goalkeeper. 100% subjective and wide open to manipulation.
Click to expand...
Making it factual again would make it too easy! It’s never been a complicated law. Stay out of the box until the penalty has been taken.
VAR should be perfect for that.

Mind you, if they follow through with the penalty becoming a single shot, with a goal kick following a penalty save or miss, then there will be no reason for anyone to be anywhere near the penalty box, whilst the penalty is being taken.
 
.db. said:
Before VAR came in, 82% of decisions made by officials were correct.
Since VAR has been introduced, 96% of decisions made have been correct.

It was always needed but we need to entice and train a better talent pool of officials because the current crop and depth of talent aren’t/isn’t good enough.

The technology itself is fine.
Click to expand...
Who has provided those stats because the only stats I see are all issues by pgmol and always show their product as being an improvement. Not only that's its all subjective, not factual. Not only that, the majority of match going fans are fed up with it. Where are those stats?

That supposed improvement has cost the game in so many other ways.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Who has provided those stats because the only stats I see are all issues by pgmol and always show their product as being an improvement. Not only that's its all subjective, not factual. Not only that, the majority of match going fans are fed up with it. Where are those stats?

That supposed improvement has cost the game in so many other ways.
Click to expand...

If their stats get any better they'll have a 120% success rate. It's all bollocks to fool the masses. Anyone who has dealt with statistics knows that.
 
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