VAR Discussion Thread | 2024/25

[BlueHammer85]

Because you talk about VAR from a fan’s perspective- and you don’t watch the match from a fan’s perspective- you wstch it on the TV.
If you think VAR makes the game better why are you wasting your £ at Ebbsfleet? You can’t be happy seeing games that aren’t having every goal checked.
I was at our game last night - it was pure joy when we scored - no fucking around wondering if there’d been some bollocks in the build up.
Just like Ebbsfleet

I go Ebbsfleet simply because it’s on my doorstep and I can take my son, I can’t afford to take him Hammers nowadays and also I chucked my season ticket for a variety of reasons, mainly my Dad dying, cost and having two kids, absolutely nothing to do with VAR.

I enjoy Football with or without VAR, I do notice the standard of officiating without it and it’s comical at times, but in the National league it is what it is.
PL and for Hammers, I’d rather VAR whether I’m in the ground like I am next Saturday, just rather Refs have some tech help - i celebrate the goals the same, I can tell most times if a player looked off or not. Shame for others who don’t celebrate the same and hate it - that’s their genuine feelings and I have no problem with that.

 

[halfcenturyup]

90+ mins and 4 mins injury time, keeper grabs the ball , lays on ground for ages, bounces it loads, walks around. crowd get restless and finally the ref runs over.. he gives the keeper a yellow card... runs back to half way line. blows his whistle... keeper pushes it another 10 seconds then hoofs it downfield.

surely far better that a keeper knows he cant mess around as he will give away a corner. which is far more damaging at the end of a game than a pointless yellow card.

60th minute, winning one-nil and under pressure, keeper grabs the ball, lies on the ground for ages, bounces it twenty times, pretends to throw it short, kicks the post, then waves everyone upfield, walks around. Ref gives him a yellow for timewasting. 90+ minutes, he doesn't do it again.

And if he does, he gets a second yellow and off the fucker goes. Ref adds on two minutes (or however long it takes) and play starts again presumably with a defender in goal as they will have wasted time bringing their five subs on in the 89th minute.

It isn't difficult if the referees have the balls and common sense to do to their job properly. That is the problem here. Not the LOTG.

Same with every other issue in the sport. The laws are fine and have been for a century. Just apply them.

 

[BlueHammer85]

60th minute, winning one-nil and under pressure, keeper grabs the ball, lies on the ground for ages, bounces it twenty times, pretends to throw it short, kicks the post, then waves everyone upfield, walks around. Ref gives him a yellow for timewasting. 90+ minutes, he doesn't do it again.

And if he does, he gets a second yellow and off the fucker goes. Ref adds on two minutes (or however long it takes) and play starts again presumably with a defender in goal as they will have wasted time bringing their five subs on in the 89th minute.

It isn't difficult if the referees have the balls and common sense to do to their job properly. That is the problem here. Not the LOTG.

Same with every other issue in the sport. The laws are fine and have been for a century. Just apply them.

Not against that … but most keepers start the real time wasting with 10 mins to go in reality. I think giving a corner away is more harsh than a yellow card and I suspect most keepers will feel the same way now.

Was you against the back pass to the keeper and he could pick the ball up back and forth ? Laws change and often for the better.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Not against that … but most keepers start the real time wasting with 10 mins to go in reality. I think giving a corner away is more harsh than a yellow card and I suspect most keepers will feel the same way now.

Was you against the back pass to the keeper and he could pick the ball up back and forth ? Laws change and often for the better.

So book him the first time he does it with ten minutes to go. You can't book him if he isn't doing it .... Contrary to popular belief, referees and, for that matter, fans aren't stupid and know when a goalkeeper is wasting time. Just use the rules as they are.

The backpass rule was more than thirty years ago. All hail the one new rule that improved the game. I could live with one every thirty years. What did you think of the six second rule? And what happened to that? We could go through them all, I suppose....

The point is, the rules as they exist at the moment can solve this problem. And I am not buying for one moment that a corner is harsher than the risk of second yellow and a defender in goal. And why a corner? Why not an indirect free-kick where the offence was committed. And why only award a corner for this? Why not for shirt-pulling, holding in the box that doesn't warrant a penalty, swearing? Why not introduce short corners for some offences like in hockey? Because they are all unnecessary, that's why.

Btw, having trouble sleeping, matey?

 

[BlueHammer85]

So book him the first time he does it with ten minutes to go. You can't book him if he isn't doing it .... Contrary to popular belief, referees and, for that matter, fans aren't stupid and know when a goalkeeper is wasting time. Just use the rules as they are.

The backpass rule was more than thirty years ago. All hail the one new rule that improved the game. I could live with one every thirty years. What did you think of the six second rule? And what happened to that? We could go through them all, I suppose....

The point is, the rules as they exist at the moment can solve this problem. And I am not buying for one moment that a corner is harsher than the risk of second yellow and a defender in goal. And why a corner? Why not an indirect free-kick where the offence was committed. And why only award a corner for this? Why not for shirt-pulling, holding in the box that doesn't warrant a penalty, swearing? Why not introduce short corners for some offences like in hockey? Because they are all unnecessary, that's why.

Btw, having trouble sleeping, matey?

Well there’s always a why not this and that, corner for me is a good sufficient rule change and I believe it will reduce the time wasting that currently exists which we already have with the yellow cards. It’s not minimised the time wasting in fact it’s probably made it worse with keepers fannying around waiting for a yellow.

Btw, no I’m currently working. You having trouble ?

 

[halfcenturyup]

Well there’s always a why not this and that, corner for me is a good sufficient rule change and I believe it will reduce the time wasting that currently exists which we already have with the yellow cards. It’s not minimised the time wasting in fact it’s probably made it worse with keepers fannying around waiting for a yellow.

Btw, no I’m currently working. You having trouble ?

:) Easy tiger. It's morning in Thailand, but I will admit I forgot the clock change in the UK, so it wasn't that late. And let's not forget you started the this and that with the back pass rule change.

Once again, keepers wouldn't be fannying around waiting for a yellow if they had already got one. At least, they wouldn't a second time if they were ever sent off for a second time-wasting. Don't blame the rules, they are were fine. Blame the referees or the idiots that give them their guidelines.

Anyway, we are going round in circles. A corner for time-wasting. Make it make sense.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Oh look, Liverpool would have had a goal scored ridiculously well offside, wasn’t even close - if it wasn’t for VAR that would have stood. Absolute farce. Seeing this time after time.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Sickening, Man Utd getting awarded a corner when the ball was in play. Goal to Man Utd. ridiculous when we have Var that could have quickly checked this and tell the ref who would have gave a goal kick.

 

[homerdog]

Sickening, Man Utd getting awarded a corner when the ball was in play. Goal to Man Utd. ridiculous when we have Var that could have quickly checked this and tell the ref who would have gave a goal kick.

Or if the linesman was not a bent rag.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Or if the linesman was not a bent rag.

yep! could well have been. had we had var for corners then the lino being a bent rag couldn't flag for a goal kick...

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

Oh look, Liverpool would have had a goal scored ridiculously well offside, wasn’t even close - if it wasn’t for VAR that would have stood. Absolute farce. Seeing this time after time.

If only it was that simple. We can see that the lino is on the far sideline positioned to see the clear offsides. Now there was another player running past him in between, but that should not have prevented the lino from seeing the offside man. Not often can you see the making of the sausage in real-time like you can here with the lino in view of the play on the hard camera. If you watch the lino you can see him moving about in an athletic manner to get in-line with the playing of the cross, and he did well to be where he needed to be to see that.

Only then to . . . do nothing. This is a common occurrence since VAR has been introduced and a common side effect from VAR usage. It is not as if we can know that the lino wouldn't have put the flag up if VAR wasn't in use. And these situations are used to claim that VAR corrected an error, when in fact it may have only caused a delay and a stadium of fans celebrating a false goal. Even the commentary sounding like a goal was scored until reality started to set in. This was not a scenario of a lino making the decision to allow play to continue for a time, then a goal being scored later on, or not and then maybe VAR doesn't intervene. With the goal being scored directly off the header, the lino wouldn't have had to make the decision because #1 every goal is automatically reviewed by VAR and #2 every offside is automatically reviewed.

So you're counting this as a lino error that needed VAR to be corrected, when in fact VAR has entirely created the scenario itself. In this instance, the lino has no incentive to put the flag up because it's getting reviewed regardless, and if he keeps the flag down he can argue he did what he was told. I think the important thing for you to consider Hammer is that, regardless of whether or not the lino put the flag up here or not, it was getting reviewed and the correct decision would be made. And from your perspective I understand the desire to want to have a failsafe if an error is made, but on the other hand, that doesn't entitle you to claim that without VAR a goal would have improperly stood. That is simply not the case here. This specific situation was always getting reviewed regardless of what the lino did.

That is not the case in other offsides situation in which the reception of a pass or cross does not immediately lead to a goal. In those cases, linos often keep the flag down and allow play to continue in a segment that will end up not counting. These situation are byproducts of VAR's intrusion to the sport.

I do not object to your desire to have VAR running in the background to catch the rare howler or even a clear mistake, but it is inaccurate for you to claim as though every lino miss with VAR running would be the same action or decision if VAR wasn't running. We don't know that, we'll never know that, and to make a long story short, this was not an instance in which VAR prevented a bad decision. It is likely that the lino would have raised the flag had VAR not been in play. Now it's possible he keeps it down and misses it, but that's unlikely given his position there. It's more likely that he kept the flag down because he's told to do so and because the situation would be reviewed regardless.

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

Sickening, Man Utd getting awarded a corner when the ball was in play. Goal to Man Utd. ridiculous when we have Var that could have quickly checked this and tell the ref who would have gave a goal kick.

I would describe VAR as sickening as far as what it's done to the game, but I'm not sure you can describe this situation as sickening. To your point, yes it did appear that the Forest player kept it in, only barely but the referee thought he saw it go out and ruled a corner. On the surface, an understandable "marginal" decision that might be tough to see in real-time. But generally if you're not sure it's definitely out you should probably let play continue, but putting that aside, there was no VAR review here because VAR doesn't allow corner / goal kick reviews. And you're upset because this injustice was allowed to stand. I get your outrage and in this instance, you're not wrong to call for more VAR to handle such situations.

It may surprise you that I would support the "quick" reviewing of all goal kick / corners. One, because when a corner or a goal kick is given, play has already stopped and during the preparation of a corner or a goal kick, this time could be conveniently used to do a quick VAR review. In theory, this addition to VAR to review all corner / goal kick decisions "quickly" shouldn't cause much further disruption, as these situation are inherently more suited to a quick review. No subjective or interpretative aspects to it, unlike other types of VAR reviews.

In this instance, VAR could see that it didn't go out, and your remedy is a goal kick. But why a goal kick? Why not a drop ball or a free kick where the player who kept it in had the ball? Why not tell everyone to stand exactly where they were before the ref incorrectly thought it went out and ruled a corner?

With the whistle, you've forever lost the moment of the player saving it from going out and continuing to possess the ball. And yes, ordering a goal kick instead of the corner would have prevented the injustice and would be better than allowing a fraudulent corner kick to score a fraudulent goal. But a more appropriate correction there would be a drop kick (or a free kick) to the player who kept it in along the endline.

And what if the opposite happened, what if it did go out but the ref thought he kept it in. And what if that leads to a goal? Do you stop play to review in that scenario? The concern is that it makes VAR even more expansive than it already is, but in fairness it is a better use of VAR in my estimation than the other ways it has been used, and would be less disruptive.

So as against VAR as I am, if we're stuck with it, I would favor "quick" reviews to check corner / goal kicks though I'm not confident enough in their ability to implement any additions to VAR's usage even though theoretically it would make sense for corners and goal kicks. I've always pointed out that VAR comes woefully short when goals from incorrect corner kick decisions happen. Corner / goal kick decisions are inherently more "factual" and more suited to video review than most of the kinds of decisions that VAR makes.

 

[TShed]

VAR was brought in to protect ref and liners from mistakes granted marginal offsides etc mainly due to over analysis by our media wankers post match
Granted some mistakes were howlers but not many

My worry with getting rid is not many rated our reffing standards pre VAR

What VAR has done is to turn them all into less than useless lazy decision avoiding twats some have clearly used the system for “cheating” even

Get rid of it and how the hell do the current crop of registered PL refs return to being singularly accountable

Well the good news could be sack the bastards or make them work the lower leagues for a couple of seasons and promote the Chsmpionship refs and see how they fair given they have not had VAR running their games

 

[BlueHammer85]

If only it was that simple. We can see that the lino is on the far sideline positioned to see the clear offsides. Now there was another player running past him in between, but that should not have prevented the lino from seeing the offside man. Not often can you see the making of the sausage in real-time like you can here with the lino in view of the play on the hard camera. If you watch the lino you can see him moving about in an athletic manner to get in-line with the playing of the cross, and he did well to be where he needed to be to see that.

Only then to . . . do nothing. This is a common occurrence since VAR has been introduced and a common side effect from VAR usage. It is not as if we can know that the lino wouldn't have put the flag up if VAR wasn't in use. And these situations are used to claim that VAR corrected an error, when in fact it may have only caused a delay and a stadium of fans celebrating a false goal. Even the commentary sounding like a goal was scored until reality started to set in. This was not a scenario of a lino making the decision to allow play to continue for a time, then a goal being scored later on, or not and then maybe VAR doesn't intervene. With the goal being scored directly off the header, the lino wouldn't have had to make the decision because #1 every goal is automatically reviewed by VAR and #2 every offside is automatically reviewed.

So you're counting this as a lino error that needed VAR to be corrected, when in fact VAR has entirely created the scenario itself. In this instance, the lino has no incentive to put the flag up because it's getting reviewed regardless, and if he keeps the flag down he can argue he did what he was told. I think the important thing for you to consider Hammer is that, regardless of whether or not the lino put the flag up here or not, it was getting reviewed and the correct decision would be made. And from your perspective I understand the desire to want to have a failsafe if an error is made, but on the other hand, that doesn't entitle you to claim that without VAR a goal would have improperly stood. That is simply not the case here. This specific situation was always getting reviewed regardless of what the lino did.

That is not the case in other offsides situation in which the reception of a pass or cross does not immediately lead to a goal. In those cases, linos often keep the flag down and allow play to continue in a segment that will end up not counting. These situation are byproducts of VAR's intrusion to the sport.

I do not object to your desire to have VAR running in the background to catch the rare howler or even a clear mistake, but it is inaccurate for you to claim as though every lino miss with VAR running would be the same action or decision if VAR wasn't running. We don't know that, we'll never know that, and to make a long story short, this was not an instance in which VAR prevented a bad decision. It is likely that the lino would have raised the flag had VAR not been in play. Now it's possible he keeps it down and misses it, but that's unlikely given his position there. It's more likely that he kept the flag down because he's told to do so and because the situation would be reviewed regardless.

I tend not to criticize the officials too much, the game is fast, as you say another player was blocking his view... so why on earth would you not give them some help ? when we have the tools to do so.

You're letting officials off the hook by claiming he would have kept his flag down anyway, I don't think so - pre VAR these type of clear but obstructed offsides were given as goals all the time, I have no doubt that the lino yesterday just didn't see the offside - I dont blame him, its a tough job - but on review it was well clear. Liverpool pre VAR would have had a offside goal count yesterday - that simply is not right.

same for Man Utd being awarded a corner when the ball never went out.

without VAR there is constant injustices, far more that outweigh the odd cock up with VAR.

when teams are getting screwed over - they demand VAR. Good luck to anyone who lives in the fantasy land that we would all be happier if VAR was scrapped.

Nottingham Forest: Sean Dyche calls for VAR changes after Man Utd score controversial goal

Manchester Uniteds Casemiro headed in opener at City Ground after corner awarded despite ball appearing to stay in play; Nottingham Forest conceded from corner which should have been a goal-kick at Bournemouth last week; Sean Dyche has called for VAR to intervene in such situations

www.skysports.com

 

[Gordyola]

Oh look, Liverpool would have had a goal scored ridiculously well offside, wasn’t even close - if it wasn’t for VAR that would have stood. Absolute farce. Seeing this time after time.

I bet the Lino would have flagged, they rely on VAR too much. Before VAR they pretty much got them right, for over 100 years now, we have the frankly ridiculous laboratory examination of freeze frames and the inaccurate bias decision as to when the ball moved to signal the offside. This is not in the spirt of the law and nearly always penalizes the attacking player

Don't know how you can watch football without VAR it must drive you mad not knowing for sure if a close offside decision was correct and if the player sent off should have been with the freeze frame slow motion for the officials to ponder over for 5 minutes

 

[Gordyola]

I tend not to criticize the officials too much, the game is fast, as you say another player was blocking his view... so why on earth would you not give them some help ? when we have the tools to do so.

You're letting officials off the hook by claiming he would have kept his flag down anyway, I don't think so - pre VAR these type of clear but obstructed offsides were given as goals all the time, I have no doubt that the lino yesterday just didn't see the offside - I dont blame him, its a tough job - but on review it was well clear. Liverpool pre VAR would have had a offside goal count yesterday - that simply is not right.

same for Man Utd being awarded a corner when the ball never went out.

without VAR there is constant injustices, far more that outweigh the odd cock up with VAR.

when teams are getting screwed over - they demand VAR. Good luck to anyone who lives in the fantasy land that we would all be happier if VAR was scrapped.

Nottingham Forest: Sean Dyche calls for VAR changes after Man Utd score controversial goal

Manchester Uniteds Casemiro headed in opener at City Ground after corner awarded despite ball appearing to stay in play; Nottingham Forest conceded from corner which should have been a goal-kick at Bournemouth last week; Sean Dyche has called for VAR to intervene in such situations

www.skysports.com

Using VAR for somethings and not others is the problem, its introduced anomalies where some things are more important than others and thats why managers will call for VAR to be extended when they are wronged.

We see situations where a player is offside, without VAR it would be given, but the Lino keeps flag down and play continues, moments later the team score but its too far back to disallow the goal, fact is the player was offside and the attacking team gained an advantage. Same with a foul in the build up. VAR has screwed the game and if you cant see it then so be it

 

[BlueHammer85]

I bet the Lino would have flagged, they rely on VAR too much. Before VAR they pretty much got them right, for over 100 years now, we have the frankly ridiculous laboratory examination of freeze frames and the inaccurate bias decision as to when the ball moved to signal the offside. This is not in the spirt of the law and nearly always penalizes the attacking player

Don't know how you can watch football without VAR it must drive you mad not knowing for sure if a close offside decision was correct and if the player sent off should have been with the freeze frame slow motion for the officials to ponder over for 5 minutes

All of a sudden officials pre VAR were brilliant and accurate ? honestly, I must be going mad.
All I ever remember from most matches were crowds going absolutely ballistic at the refs/linos, walking out the ground fuming about the refs, turning on the radio for the drive home, hearing how we got screwed over by a bad decision and the talk of how bad a decision in most games dominated the airwaves and MOTD in the evening.

You have full faith the lino knew that was off but just decided not to bother flagging. I don't share your faith at all. Liverpool would have been awarded that offside goal.

 

[Gordyola]

All of a sudden officials pre VAR were brilliant and accurate ? honestly, I must be going mad.
All I ever remember from most matches were crowds going absolutely ballistic at the refs/linos, walking out the ground fuming about the refs, turning on the radio for the drive home, hearing how we got screwed over by a bad decision and the talk of how bad a decision in most games dominated the airwaves and MOTD in the evening.

You have full faith the lino knew that was off but just decided not to bother flagging. I don't share your faith at all. Liverpool would have been awarded that offside goal.

Most matches come-on thats as massive exaggeration

Then watching it on MoTD only to see that in their bias emotion they were wrong

No they weren't but refs were better pre-VAR now, especially the crap ones, they rely on it

Now I heard on the radio how VAR has fucked up and there are been numerous instances lately, yes 4 officials have fucked up despite forensic examination using freeze frame slow motion etc they get it wrong and they dont have an excuse then Webb issues a PiGMOL apology

The truth is there are just as many errors now as before just now they are even bigger

 

[johnnytapia]

I tend not to criticize the officials too much, the game is fast, as you say another player was blocking his view... so why on earth would you not give them some help ? when we have the tools to do so.

You're letting officials off the hook by claiming he would have kept his flag down anyway, I don't think so - pre VAR these type of clear but obstructed offsides were given as goals all the time, I have no doubt that the lino yesterday just didn't see the offside - I dont blame him, its a tough job - but on review it was well clear. Liverpool pre VAR would have had a offside goal count yesterday - that simply is not right.

same for Man Utd being awarded a corner when the ball never went out.

without VAR there is constant injustices, far more that outweigh the odd cock up with VAR.

when teams are getting screwed over - they demand VAR. Good luck to anyone who lives in the fantasy land that we would all be happier if VAR was scrapped.

Nottingham Forest: Sean Dyche calls for VAR changes after Man Utd score controversial goal

Manchester Uniteds Casemiro headed in opener at City Ground after corner awarded despite ball appearing to stay in play; Nottingham Forest conceded from corner which should have been a goal-kick at Bournemouth last week; Sean Dyche has called for VAR to intervene in such situations

www.skysports.com

“Good luck to anyone who lives in the fantasy land that we would all be happier if VAR was scrapped.”

Let’s have a season without VAR. Then ask the fans.

 

[BlueHammer85]

The truth is there are just as many errors now as before just now they are even bigger

That's really not the truth.

One cock up with VAR is massively met with outrage - and i don't mind that, there shouldn't really be major mistakes with VAR - but I've always said it will just happen time to time but ultimately over a weekend of many many games it happens in one or two.

what we see without VAR, is clear offside goals being allowed to stand, red card incidents going unpunished and most notably players diving in the box with zero contact and being awarded a penalty - I remember all these incidences on a far regular basis than most others it seems.

I go watch my local team Ebbsfleet and seen Charlton a few times this year, many games where the game was farcical with some of the decisions being made. Its more comical than annoyance.