not at fucking Old Trafford that's for sure
VAR Discussion Thread
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TheBeautifulGame
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Do you think they realize how unpopular VAR is or are they so delusional to think they're important and needed. It's gotta be a huge ego boost to feel that you are needed to decide big decisions in matches. I couldn't imagine having that responsibility. No one in an ivory tower of sorts should be able to play God and manipulate matches in real-time. The optics of VAR (as in, not the technical optics but just the "look" of everything) is horrendous. It literally gives the impression of overt match fixing and corruption that is unfolding in front of your eyes. So many of their decisions are wrong or controversial. Whether or not it is actually corrupt is a matter of debate, but it unquestionably gives the impression.
But the issue is the system is fundamentally flawed because it’s still a human making the decision. Add to that it’s now a decision that is clandestine and not policed/quality assured in anyway. What you have is the ultimate tool for corruption and match tampering. Time was a shit ref was demoted. What happens to the twats who made that call on VAR? To defend VAR is to say you’re fundamentally happy with it being inherently flawed. It will never be objective unbiased. It’s still a human making a subjective decision. It hasn’t resolved the refereeing problem it’s just passed it to another source of decision making.
Then we're doomed!! :-)
KentBlue
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The derby the other day, the rag **** should have had a red card, that is surely not debatable? But he wasn't given a red card. Any other team, any other game, any other league, that's a definite red.
So if nothing else it's incredibly inconsistent, and that is not the fault of the equipment - it is solely down to the way that equipment is being used...in other words Webb and his cronies at pgmol are being permitted to manipulate the outcome of football matches.
If Sepp Blatter and his bent mates could get away with what they did globally, Howard Webb can do the same in the Premier league.
So if nothing else it's incredibly inconsistent, and that is not the fault of the equipment - it is solely down to the way that equipment is being used...in other words Webb and his cronies at pgmol are being permitted to manipulate the outcome of football matches.
If Sepp Blatter and his bent mates could get away with what they did globally, Howard Webb can do the same in the Premier league.
Gordyola
Well-Known Member
1.93 / game Last 10 seasons 1.72. +0.21
1.79 / game Last 10 seasons 2.28 -0.49
1.86 / game Last 10 seasons 2.13 -0.27
Assuming the figures are correct
The last 10 seasons are from statmuse
So, under Taylor the rags achieve better than average whereas City and Liverpool achieve worse
Of course the figures dont include which are away v home but even so there is a big discrepancy
But both PiGMOL and that **** Webb have already come out and said they think yellow was the right call. Given that almost everybody else thinks it was a clear red, it tells you one of two things - either they are incompetent, or corrupt. I know which of the two I think it is!
Gordyola
Well-Known Member
Having a Video Assistant Referee (VAR) has always had its challenges because they’re trying to catch mistakes or incidents the referee might miss in real time.
One big problem is that VAR doesn’t want to re-referee, which means there’s a difference in how they value a foul. VAR can only look at fouls that lead to a penalty being given or not. So, if the referee misses a foul outside the penalty area, even if it’s close, VAR won’t look at it. We’ve already seen this discrepancy where two yellow cards weren’t looked at, even though they had the same punishment as a straight red card on the day.
Then there’s the over-the-top analysis of an incident and how they apply the phase of play. For example, if a penalty is awarded, VAR automatically analyzes it, but they also have to check for every other possibility that might have happened before the penalty, like whether a player was offside or if there was an offense before the penalty. That’s why they take so long to find perfection. This is unavoidable because if they didn’t, the media would be outraged and make a huge issue out of it.
Offsides: Sometimes, they don’t consider the “spirit” of the law, and each incident is looked at too closely. For instance, a perfectly good goal might be disallowed because a player was just a fractionally offside. It’s even more ridiculous because the frame they choose can affect the verdict. Wegner has suggested that there should be a clear gap between the defender and the attacker, which seems like a better solution, but again, the chosen frame is crucial. SAOT has 100fps cameras, so it’s less critical, but we’ve seen situations where the wrong frame was suggested or overridden by VAR, like the Newcastle goal against City.
The Semenyo goal analysis really highlighted some of the issues with VAR. It seemed like they were trying to call it off and were willing to take their time. If it was offside, it was a tiny fraction, and then it became a call that depended on who was watching. So, the players had to make the call. Even other fans, except Newcastle, thought it was a silly decision. They couldn’t use SAOT because the area was too packed, and the ball was out of frame for the kick point as it was a corner.
I didn’t want VAR, and I still don’t. But it’s not going away. Kieran McGuire mentioned on the latest PoF podcast that a lawyer told him if VAR was taken away, the league would be open to lawsuits from clubs who lost out on decisions that VAR would probably catch. But I’d argue that a club in the EFL could sue the league for not using VAR. Plus, I thought the rules of the competition said legal action couldn’t happen outside of arbitration.
Before VAR was introduced I thought that they could have a system where 3 individuals watched the game, independently, with a button that they would press if they saw something that the onfield ref should look at and only if all 3 were pressed then it would mean the onfield would look it. This would cover offside as well, meaning that only an horrendous mistake by the linesman would be looked at meaning they would revert to flagging for offside using their experience
One big problem is that VAR doesn’t want to re-referee, which means there’s a difference in how they value a foul. VAR can only look at fouls that lead to a penalty being given or not. So, if the referee misses a foul outside the penalty area, even if it’s close, VAR won’t look at it. We’ve already seen this discrepancy where two yellow cards weren’t looked at, even though they had the same punishment as a straight red card on the day.
Then there’s the over-the-top analysis of an incident and how they apply the phase of play. For example, if a penalty is awarded, VAR automatically analyzes it, but they also have to check for every other possibility that might have happened before the penalty, like whether a player was offside or if there was an offense before the penalty. That’s why they take so long to find perfection. This is unavoidable because if they didn’t, the media would be outraged and make a huge issue out of it.
Offsides: Sometimes, they don’t consider the “spirit” of the law, and each incident is looked at too closely. For instance, a perfectly good goal might be disallowed because a player was just a fractionally offside. It’s even more ridiculous because the frame they choose can affect the verdict. Wegner has suggested that there should be a clear gap between the defender and the attacker, which seems like a better solution, but again, the chosen frame is crucial. SAOT has 100fps cameras, so it’s less critical, but we’ve seen situations where the wrong frame was suggested or overridden by VAR, like the Newcastle goal against City.
The Semenyo goal analysis really highlighted some of the issues with VAR. It seemed like they were trying to call it off and were willing to take their time. If it was offside, it was a tiny fraction, and then it became a call that depended on who was watching. So, the players had to make the call. Even other fans, except Newcastle, thought it was a silly decision. They couldn’t use SAOT because the area was too packed, and the ball was out of frame for the kick point as it was a corner.
I didn’t want VAR, and I still don’t. But it’s not going away. Kieran McGuire mentioned on the latest PoF podcast that a lawyer told him if VAR was taken away, the league would be open to lawsuits from clubs who lost out on decisions that VAR would probably catch. But I’d argue that a club in the EFL could sue the league for not using VAR. Plus, I thought the rules of the competition said legal action couldn’t happen outside of arbitration.
Before VAR was introduced I thought that they could have a system where 3 individuals watched the game, independently, with a button that they would press if they saw something that the onfield ref should look at and only if all 3 were pressed then it would mean the onfield would look it. This would cover offside as well, meaning that only an horrendous mistake by the linesman would be looked at meaning they would revert to flagging for offside using their experience
BigJoe#1
Well-Known Member
It's not an either or matter. They are both incompetent AND corrupt.
We are agreeing in a roundabout way, VAR is two things - 1. The equipment and 2. The users - item 1 is OK, item 2 is not.
blue by birth
Well-Known Member
An Everton player was offside in the build up so even if it did hit Rod lower on the arm than was deemed it would have been ruled out for the offside which occurred prior to it
danielwood5
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The Rodri 'handball' did go to VAR and they cleared it. There was a shot that showed that the ball probably did hit above the t-shirt line but has never been online since. The video evidence definitely wasn't definitive that it didn't hit below the t-shirt line at least so they went with the onfield decision.
I'm not even sure that the offside was looked at or given as that's another incident that it's now incredibly difficult to find footage of.
Trevor Morley's Tache
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Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
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It's OK. Windbag Howie has pontificated and the VAR decision was kosher. Nothing to see here, other than a bunch of redshirt-infused wafflers.
johnnytapia
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More fucking around that none of us asked for.
VAR, please please please just fuck off and let us get back to what we had for 150 years. One ref two linesmen, plenty of disputes and none of this fucking absolute micro management SHITE.
Anyone disagrees- fuck off and watch tennis.
www.theguardian.com
VAR, please please please just fuck off and let us get back to what we had for 150 years. One ref two linesmen, plenty of disputes and none of this fucking absolute micro management SHITE.
Anyone disagrees- fuck off and watch tennis.
VARs will intervene on second yellows and corners after football law changes
Football’s law-making body has backed plans to extend the use of VAR, allowing it to intervene on second yellow cards and the awarding of corners
www.theguardian.com
I'd like to make 2 points.
Definition of "subjective" from google
"Subjective describes something based on personal feelings, opinions, beliefs, or experiences, rather than external facts or evidence"
Given PGMOL has no desire to re-referee games, how can VAR ever call for a "subjective offside " review, as by definition it is not factual, and involves another person's opinion, that there may be something wrong. That's re-refereeing the game, and is not supposed to happen.
So there should NEVER be subjective reviews.
Given that rag twat Webb, with reference to Dalot on Saturday, said VAR should not intervene, as there was no clear and obvious error, therefore on field decision should stand. CLEAR & OBVIOUS (what a f***ing joke). Semenyo's 2nd at Newcastle, Haaland subjectively offside (don't forget, that should NEVER happen), if it takes just short of 6 minutes, how the f**k is that "clear and obvious".
If its clear and obvious, it should take 30 seconds to 1 minute max, or on field decision should stand.
Definition of "subjective" from google
"Subjective describes something based on personal feelings, opinions, beliefs, or experiences, rather than external facts or evidence"
Given PGMOL has no desire to re-referee games, how can VAR ever call for a "subjective offside " review, as by definition it is not factual, and involves another person's opinion, that there may be something wrong. That's re-refereeing the game, and is not supposed to happen.
So there should NEVER be subjective reviews.
Given that rag twat Webb, with reference to Dalot on Saturday, said VAR should not intervene, as there was no clear and obvious error, therefore on field decision should stand. CLEAR & OBVIOUS (what a f***ing joke). Semenyo's 2nd at Newcastle, Haaland subjectively offside (don't forget, that should NEVER happen), if it takes just short of 6 minutes, how the f**k is that "clear and obvious".
If its clear and obvious, it should take 30 seconds to 1 minute max, or on field decision should stand.
Oyster28catcher
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5 goals disallowed through VAR in 2 games.
I like VAR.
I like VAR.
Gorton_Tubster
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VAR is rubber stamping corruption. I'm fed up with it
Oh just what we all wanted.
Var will now look at corners and 2nd yellows.
The fans in the stadium will have no idea why there is a stoppage in play whilst the wanker takes 3 minutes to review every angle just to decide the corner was correctly given.
Football is dying and they don't realise why.
Var will now look at corners and 2nd yellows.
The fans in the stadium will have no idea why there is a stoppage in play whilst the wanker takes 3 minutes to review every angle just to decide the corner was correctly given.
Football is dying and they don't realise why.
We're at war not just with Masters, but the whole f@ckin shitshow that is English football