VAR (PL introduction 2019)

[SWP's back]

Not to sure about that mate linesman lifted his flag on Sterlings goal as an after thought, maybe he thought well if this is wrong VAR will tell me. What it did do was kill the moment on the pitch and the terraces.

It wasn’t an afterthought at all.

On tight calls, with VAR, they are told to keep their flags down until the play finishes so the ref doesn’t blow on a mistake.

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

It wasn’t an afterthought at all.

On tight calls, with VAR, they are told to keep their flags down until the play finishes so the ref doesn’t blow on a mistake.

This is the problem. Most fans don't understand that simple fact.

I know one team in another sport that lost a national championship due to an inadvertent whistle.

I'd much rather this system.

It will improve with time, meanwhile the miserable gits moaning should just be happy we're not at the mercy of the refs head anymore. If they are going to shaft a team, it will be plain as day.

 

[i kne albert davy]

It wasn’t an afterthought at all.

On tight calls, with VAR, they are told to keep their flags down until the play finishes so the ref doesn’t blow on a mistake.

Seemed it from the terrace he was walking back to the half way line when he raised the flag, like he'd had a whisper in the earpiece that, ooh that might be close.

 

[Blue Mist]

Jesus you need to chill man. Sane's was quite easy to see. There was also no furore with players surrounding the ref etc. Some are inevitably quite complicated and some aren't.

it was slightly tongue in cheek but none were that complicated that it should take nearly 3 minutes. The one where they surrounded the ref was the first and that didn't take that long. It is spoiling the game for match going fans.

 

[SWP's back]

Seemed it from the terrace he was walking back to the half way line when he raised the flag, like he'd had a whisper in the earpiece that, ooh that might be close.

He Raised it as soon as it hit the net, same with Sane’s.

It’s ansolutely the right thing to do. Once the ref whistles then play stops so far better to disallow a goal with a late flag and be over turned by var then flag early, refs blows and the chance ends before a shot is taken.

 

[Saddleworth2]

From the VAR Handbook

The aim of the experiment is NOT to achieve 100% accuracy for all decisions as there is no desire to destroy the essential flow and emotions of football which result from the game’s almost non-stop action and the general absence of lengthy stoppages. The philosophy is:
‘minimum interference – maximum benefit’

To ensure that the referee (not the VAR) is the key match official, the referee will ALWAYS make a decision (except a ‘missed’ usually ‘off the ball’ incident), including the decision that no offence has occurred. The referee’s decision can ONLY BE CHANGED if the video review shows a CLEAR ERROR i.e. not ‘was the decision correct?’ but:

‘was the decision clearly wrong?’

Principles
There are twelve principles which are the foundation of the VAR experiment:
1. Video technology will only be used to correct clear errors and for missed serious incidents in defined match-changing decisions: goal, penalty/no penalty, direct red card and mistaken identity (e.g. the referee cautions/sends off the wrong player).
2. The final decision will always be taken by the referee.
3. Video Assistant Referees (VARs) are match officials - any information the VARs
provide to the referee will be treated by the referee in the same way as information
received from an assistant referee, additional assistant referee or the fourth official.
4. The referee must always make a decision regardless of the existence of VARs i.e. the referee is not permitted to give ‘no decision’ and refer the situation to the VAR. If the referee decides not to stop play for an alleged offence, the decision (to allow play to continue) can be reviewed. On rare occasions, when it is unclear whether a penalised cautionable (YC) offence is a sending-off (RC), or who should receive the
sanction, the referee may consult the VAR.
5. The original decision given by the referee will not be changed unless the video
review clearly shows that the decision was clearly wrong.
6. Only the referee can initiate a review; the VAR (and the other match officials) can
only recommend a review to the referee.
7. Whatever the review process, there is no time pressure to review the decision quickly
as accuracy is more important than speed.
8. The players and team officials must not surround the referee or attempt to
influence if a decision is reviewed, the review process or the final decision. A player who uses the ‘review signal’ will be cautioned (YC).
9. The referee should, as far as possible, remain ‘visible’ during the review process to ensure transparency.
10. If play continues after an incident which is then reviewed, any disciplinary action taken/required during the post-incident period is not cancelled, even if the original decision is changed (except a caution/send-off for stopping a promising attack or DOGSO).
11. There is a maximum period before and after an incident that can be reviewed.
12. The VAR protocol, as far as possible, conforms to the principles and philosophy of
the Laws of the Game.

More here
https://www.knvb.nl/downloads/bestand/9844/var-handbook-v8_final

thats not how it is being applied though. Clear error does not = a toe offside and 10 minutes to try and ascertain that. Last night was a bloody joke. It killed you wanting to celebrate goals in the moment.

 

[TheBlueDune]

Maybe the only thing FIFA got right shown in Russia.

FIFA, incident happens, ref not sure. Looks at replay at the side of the pitch. Asks TV team for all the angles. Quickly decides.

UEFA, incident, ref makes decision, VAR ref says hold on while I check. Ref stands like a lemon. VAR ref tries to find excuse to disallow city's goal. Tells ref to disallow goal. Ref draws a box, blows whistle, gives free kick. 2-3 minutes later, minimum.

Moral of the story, works best as aid for on field ref to give correct decision.

UEFA moral, works best to influence results as shown by dodgy handballs and penalties.

 

[Gordyola]

thats not how it is being applied though. Clear error does not = a toe offside and 10 minutes to try and ascertain that. Last night was a bloody joke. It killed you wanting to celebrate goals in the moment.

I agree we already have examples, Aguero goal disallowed recently when it was debatable as to whether he was offside, if he was it was mm. The VAR is checking everything and if he see's an issue, however small, he refers it to the ref who having had a chat decides if it should be analysed. Sergio's second last night was checked and they only started analysis just before the kick-off, after the celebrations and all the players were back in place.
Then there is the issue of play time lost during an analysis, according the the instructions the AR is to keep a record and tell the ref who will added it on, last night none was allowed, and in the second half despite Danilo getting treatment, the subs, the VAR and the usual minute allowed the ref blew on 90mins The booing by the frustrated paying spectators says everything that UEFA need to know about VAR

 

[BosnianBlue]

Really? How do you work that one out Einstein ?

fairly simple. whoever has a problem with technology that reduces mistakes and bent decisions to a big minimum, has problems.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I suppose it was highlighted more last night due to the number of goals we scored and a pen which obviously you wouldn’t get in most games. However the time taken was ridiculous. The crowd were just fed up with it all. I’d sat down by the time Sterlings goal
had been given and it was a bit of muted celebration when the goal was given. If this doesn’t improve I can see it really pissing off match going fans. 2 mins added at HT too after 3 subs and 4 VAR reviews which alone must have taken 5/6 mins.

I’m not a fan

 

[Blue Mist]

fairly simple. whoever has a problem with technology that reduces mistakes and bent decisions to a big minimum, has problems.

How does it reduce mistakes ? The VAR official can basically say what he wants, as we found out to our cost in Schalke, or when he decided it wasn't fair to give a penalty against a 'little' team (Burton) Or when he is the only person in the world that thought the Rags needed ergh sorry should get a penalty in the 93rd minute in Paris.
It should be a brilliant system and worked well in the world cup but that shows how it can be and is being manipulated in the Chumps league. The standard between the 2 competitions is stark.

 

[inchy14]

It wasn’t an afterthought at all.

On tight calls, with VAR, they are told to keep their flags down until the play finishes so the ref doesn’t blow on a mistake.

He got all of them right apart from Sterling’s tbh, and where I was sat I thought he was off at the time, if it had been disallowed I wouldn’t have criticised until I got home.

It’s how long it takes us the problem

 

[BlueHammer85]

I suppose it was highlighted more last night due to the number of goals we scored and a pen which obviously you wouldn’t get in most games. However the time taken was ridiculous. The crowd were just fed up with it all. I’d sat down by the time Sterlings goal
had been given and it was a bit of muted celebration when the goal was given. If this doesn’t improve I can see it really pissing off match going fans. 2 mins added at HT too after 3 subs and 4 VAR reviews which alone must have taken 5/6 mins.

I’m not a fan

I’m more p*ssed off when a ref and Lino takes a guess and awards a penalty or goal when it wasn’t - i’ll take waiting a couple mins for a correct verdict on the odd occasion any day.
Problem with VAR - it will get 9/10 decisions correct but you will only hear the whinging and moaning from the 1/10 decision that it doesn’t get correct.

 

[Groke]

How the fuck has VAR given that Suarez penalty? Rhetorical question, obviously

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I’m more p*ssed off when a ref and Lino takes a guess and awards a penalty or goal when it wasn’t - i’ll take waiting a couple mins for a correct verdict on the odd occasion any day.
Problem with VAR - it will get 9/10 decisions correct but you will only hear the whinging and moaning from the 1/10 decision that it doesn’t get correct.

Not being critical or anything Bluehammer but do you do to the games and if so have you experienced it live? I know it pissed a lot of people off at the game last night purely due to the time it takes. I accept that last night was unusual and in most games it might only be one or two decisions but it took the edge of the excitement of the goals for me, particularly Sterling’s goal.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I’m more p*ssed off when a ref and Lino takes a guess and awards a penalty or goal when it wasn’t - i’ll take waiting a couple mins for a correct verdict on the odd occasion any day.
Problem with VAR - it will get 9/10 decisions correct but you will only hear the whinging and moaning from the 1/10 decision that it doesn’t get correct.

You are a strange guy.

 

[Theengelbert]

Don’t know if this has been said before - can’t be bothered trawling through the whole thread.. but goal highlights might not be what they were soon.. you know like sky sports compilations of best goals. It dawned on me after watching sterling’s the other night.

Best premier league goals 2021/22- clip of foden dinking it through to sterling who scores a screamer, but instead of celebrating there’s zero atmosphere, everyone looks at each other, then when the ref gives it there’s a bit of muted applause. Sad times

 

[BlueHammer85]

Not being critical or anything Bluehammer but do you do to the games and if so have you experienced it live? I know it pissed a lot of people off at the game last night purely due to the time it takes. I accept that last night was unusual and in most games it might only be one or two decisions but it took the edge of the excitement of the goals for me, particularly Sterling’s goal.

Season ticket holder all my life and admittedly I haven’t sat through a VAR incident - I can understand the frustration of waiting for a correct outcome - but surely that pales in comparison to the frustration when a ref wrongly gives a red card or penalty against your team when that was totally not the case.

 

[cleavers]

On tight calls, with VAR, they are told to keep their flags down until the play finishes so the ref doesn’t blow on a mistake.

In the CL. In the convoluted version being used in england they can (and do) whatever they want.

This (UEFA) version (similar tonight) is the correct way to use it, let a goal be scored then check offside.

Last night VAR got all the decisions correct, even thought it took far too long, and that needs looking at. Also if takes 5 minutes, 5 minutes needs to be added, not 2.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

fairly simple. whoever has a problem with technology that reduces mistakes and bent decisions to a big minimum, has problems.

This assertion that technology is always the answer again.
You do know that people are ultimately deciding what is a pen or isnt.