Veganism

[BlueTangerine]

Sounds like it's you with the problem, not others.

If I had a quid for every time I've heard that :)

I've been through the absence of free will with you before and you didn't seem to get it or it's implications.

 

[SWP's back]

I'll try to post links later to what I've read and the conclusions it has made me form. All I was really saying was I think animals feel pain and distress and thus you are obligated to extend 'the golden rule' to them. Our Human nature isn't pretty or good and the only saving grace is our intelligence, it would be better if we didn't walk through our shit lives rationalizing our behaviour.

Again with the shit lives?

Serious question, are you ok?

 

[BlueTangerine]

You might have a shit life and want to over analyse every little thing in order to make it better. The majority of us just try and do the best for ourselves and our children. We all have our own definitions as to what that is.
Mine includes eating meat and I wouldn't have it any other way.

That's fine. But I am allowed to think you are thoughtless and/or selfish, as I believe I was for a long time. It's just a disagreement.

 

[Phil1]

That's fine. But I am allowed to think you are thoughtless and/or selfish, as I believe I was for a long time. It's just a disagreement.

The thing is mate, you're allowed your opinion and you often tell us how life, or more to the point humans, are ruining the world. You tell us what steps you make to make your life more bearable, yet you still sound very unhappy with your lot.
If I was you I'd change tact and just embrace the finer things, it can't be any worse.

 

[Why Always Ste]

Can any Vegans point me in the right direction for meat alternatives?
I'm frequently training throughout the week, need regular protein intake and even though I'm consuming alot I'm still only at 80kg
I tried switching off red meat and chicken to Fish but its just too fucking expensive and I'm just as unsure where its actually farmed.

Seems to be a vegan is to be constantly skinny, no muscle, and skint from having to buy all the fresh local produce.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I don't have compassion for animals because I don't have compassion for bacteria, or viruses, or plants and see them ranked along the same lines. This doesn't mean I don't love my dog or have a collection of cat skulls in my basement, it means that although I love my dog I recognise it as ultimately inferior to every human being alive by almost every metric apart from my own sentimentality borne out of what is essentially my own invention.

Surely yer put yer dog above the Stretford end in terms of every known metric. And what's with this skull collection in yer basement? Sounds a bit Fred West!

 

[Matty]

I'm not unwilling to admit anything. I dont believe flies feel pain, I believe they have reflexes . My comfort also comes first and if there was nothing else to eat I would have to kill to survive.

People going on about the moral high ground or holier than thou stuff make me laugh. I am making an argument. I think it's fair to say my outlook on life is negative and that includes myself. The game is pointless and full of waste, and acknowledging that is hard.

I believe.

You've also said, at other times in the thread "I think".

Then you've equated those statements with the word "fact" and made judgements on those who act differently to yourself.

Beliefs, and thoughts are not the same thing as facts and, once you accept that you've come to a conclusion that is not necessarily the one and only logical, correct conclusion given the "facts" to hand then you'll understand why the vast majority choose to eat meat and dairy when you do not.

Your assertion that your conclusion is the only logical one that can be made, and anyone who concludes differently is acting illogically, and selfishly, is one which is always going to royally piss off the majority, who don't agree with you.

You're not "making an argument", you're making a judgement. You're judging people as being morally, and ethically, inferior to yourself based upon beliefs and thoughts you've decided are actually undeniable facts.

It's offensive to those of us who hold differing views to your own that you believe us to be "lesser" because of it.

 

[peoffrey]

My vegan and vegetarian friends don't preach their beliefs to me and neither do I preach my beliefs as a meat eater. Make your mind up and shut it.

 

[BlueTangerine]

I believe.

You've also said, at other times in the thread "I think".

Then you've equated those statements with the word "fact" and made judgements on those who act differently to yourself.

Beliefs, and thoughts are not the same thing as facts and, once you accept that you've come to a conclusion that is not necessarily the one and only logical, correct conclusion given the "facts" to hand then you'll understand why the vast majority choose to eat meat and dairy when you do not.

Your assertion that your conclusion is the only logical one that can be made, and anyone who concludes differently is acting illogically, and selfishly, is one which is always going to royally piss off the majority, who don't agree with you.

You're not "making an argument", you're making a judgement. You're judging people as being morally, and ethically, inferior to yourself based upon beliefs and thoughts you've decided are actually undeniable facts.

It's offensive to those of us who hold differing views to your own that you believe us to be "lesser" because of it.

The facts are that animals feel pain and it is significant. We can appreciate it because we are animals too. Now if you accept those 2 facts and continue to perpetuate the needless suffering then the judgment is made automatically. To those people only, not the ignorant. I know people don't like to think themselves as selfishd, but what are you left with?

I'll post links about pain and neurons and brains and nervous systems later supporting those facts.

 

[Metal Biker]

I'll try to post links later to what I've read and the conclusions it has made me form. All I was really saying was I think animals feel pain and distress and thus you are obligated to extend 'the golden rule' to them. Our Human nature isn't pretty or good and the only saving grace is our intelligence, it would be better if we didn't walk through our shit lives rationalizing our behaviour.

By "shit lives" are you refering to the farmers and often times immigrant workers who toil in the fields, cultivating and harvesting the crops all year round so we can have vegetables to eat? Can you imagine the enormous strain it would place famers under to feed a world population of 7 billion on nothing but vegetable products? No, no you mean the poor moo cow which stands in a field eating grass, chewing cud and defacating all day. Such hardships.