It depends what you class as heavily. If you are talking about the recommended amount of units a week then I was way over that, but I didn't drink every day and wasn't drunk every day. I was in the habit of drinking at least a few most nights after work to unwind from the stress. Some nights I could quite easily do in 2 bottles of red wine without even really thinking about it and wouldn't even really be drunk off that. Going out on a weekend with pals or going to away games etc we could quite easily go out and drink from about 10 in the morning until about 4 the next morning. Regarding being dependent I would say half the country probably is, most people I know who even drink mildly would probably struggle if you challenged them to 2 months off the drink.
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Veganism
- Thread starter BlueTangerine
- Start date
It depends what you class as heavily. If you are talking about the recommended amount of units a week then I was way over that, but I didn't drink every day and wasn't drunk every day. I was in the habit of drinking at least a few most nights after work to unwind from the stress. Some nights I could quite easily do in 2 bottles of red wine without even really thinking about it and wouldn't even really be drunk off that. Going out on a weekend with pals or going to away games etc we could quite easily go out and drink from about 10 in the morning until about 4 the next morning. Regarding being dependent I would say half the country probably is, most people I know who even drink mildly would probably struggle if you challenged them to 2 months off the drink.
citizenyank76
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My feelings on Veganism:
Me: "That is a probably a good life choice. Glad to see you can maintain the discipline to stay with it."
Vegan: "Well, you see, I think it's my duty not to exploit animals and help purify our food production."
Me: "Well you see, I really give a fuck about that. But I'll remember to bring some meat alternatives the next time I have a barbecue."
Me: "That is a probably a good life choice. Glad to see you can maintain the discipline to stay with it."
Vegan: "Well, you see, I think it's my duty not to exploit animals and help purify our food production."
Me: "Well you see, I really give a fuck about that. But I'll remember to bring some meat alternatives the next time I have a barbecue."
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MellowJoe
Well-Known Member
Apart from the fact there wouldn't be cows or very few, or do farmers raise the for free out of them goodness of their hearts ?
Fewer cows forced to live lives barely worth living (if at all) would be an improvement wouldn't it?
andyhinch
Well-Known Member
Why isit barely worth living ? What very strange view of living creatures you have.Fewer cows forced to live lives barely worth living (if at all) would be an improvement wouldn't it?
MellowJoe
Well-Known Member
Why isit barely worth living ? What very strange view of living creatures you have.
Not really. I don't even think it's a controversial claim to say that it would have been better if the animals involved in factory farming would never have existed.
SWP's back
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So buy organic and free range.Not really. I don't even think it's a controversial claim to say that it would have been better if the animals involved in factory farming would never have existed.
MellowJoe
Well-Known Member
So buy organic and free range.
No thanks, I can live fine with out it.
SWP's back
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I was just letting you know it wasn't a digital choice. It's analog. It's possible to be a meat eater and also be against intensively farmed animal products.No thanks, I can live fine with out it.
andyhinch
Well-Known Member
I find some people's thoughts on animal husbandry strange, they are the types that would rather a day old calf's killed than let them live a happy life than be eaten, I'm sure they thinks the fields would be filled with herds of happy roaming animals if the nasty humans didn't eat them, without a thought about the people that care for them day in day out.I was just letting you know it wasn't a digital choice. It's analog. It's possible to be a meat eater and also be against intensively farmed animal products.
Barcon
Well-Known Member
It would be a bit of a shame if we just ripped their skins off and then left them to rot.
MellowJoe
Well-Known Member
I was just letting you know it wasn't a digital choice. It's analog. It's possible to be a meat eater and also be against intensively farmed animal products.
Yeah, but that's a little bit like a slave owner saying "But I treat my slaves well" - The objection to killing animals for their oh so tasty flesh goes beyond simply how we happen to raise them, although of course some ways are worse than others.
andyhinch
Well-Known Member
So you'd be happy with fields with no cows or sheep with most breeds becoming extinct in your lifetime ?Yeah, but that's a little bit like a slave owner saying "But I treat my slaves well" - The objection to killing animals for their oh so tasty flesh goes beyond simply how we happen to raise them, although of course some ways are worse than others.
MellowJoe
Well-Known Member
So you'd be happy with fields with no cows or sheep with most breeds becoming extinct in your lifetime ?
Seems to me you're using the the logic of the larder. And yes, I see absolutely no horror allowing animals to go extinct.
http://www.henrysalt.co.uk/bibliography/essays/logic-of-the-larder
andyhinch
Well-Known Member
I have some time for Mr Salts on this, but to use his works on any ethics as compared to the modern day really is scraping the barrel, genuine question, have you ever lived or worked on a farm and if so give me some examples of cruelty you've witnessed.Seems to me you're using the the logic of the larder. And yes, I see absolutely no horror allowing animals to go extinct.
http://www.henrysalt.co.uk/bibliography/essays/logic-of-the-larder
MellowJoe
Well-Known Member
I have some time for Mr Salts on this, but to use his works on any ethics as compared to the modern day really is scraping the barrel, genuine question, have you ever lived or worked on a farm and if so give me some examples of cruelty you've witnessed.
You realise he wrote this in 1914? Before factory farming really took off, or is practised like it is now?
andyhinch
Well-Known Member
Yes, when did I bring up factory farming ? Could you answer my question, it's quite pertinent to "how it is now"You realise he wrote this in 1914? Before factory farming really took off, or is practised like it is now?
MellowJoe
Well-Known Member
Yes, when did I bring up factory farming ? Could you answer my question, it's quite pertinent to "how it is now"
My argument for being a vegan extends beyond how we treat animals before we decide to slaughter them. Presumably you read the essay. Still, in your eyes, the animals are indebted to us some how? Do you think Henry - the guy you have a lot of time for - would stop arguing against the idea that we should breed and destroy animals to simply satisfy our subjective taste buds?
andyhinch
Well-Known Member
I said some time, you've still not answered my question, to extrapolate would you be ok if we reverted to hunter gatherers?My argument for being a vegan extends beyond how we treat animals before we decide to slaughter them. Presumably you read the essay. Still, in your eyes, the animals are indebted to us some how? Do you think Henry - the guy you have a lot of time for - would stop arguing against the idea that we should breed and destroy animals to simply satisfy our subjective taste buds?
MellowJoe
Well-Known Member
I said some time, you've still not answered my question, to extrapolate would you be ok if we reverted to hunter gatherers?
Not at all. My view is that we have an obligation to phase out suffering, not perpetuate it.
andyhinch
Well-Known Member
No experience in farming, or not going back or both ?Not at all. My view is that we have an obligation to phase out suffering, not perpetuate it.