Villa v Maccabi Tel Aviv - away fans banned | MTA confirm they will refuse any allocation for safety reasons (p26)

[Manc Born & Bred]

Its never your fault is it?

I suppose this lads ticket was promised 3,000 years ago too?

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Do you realise that this guy isn't Jewish, he's Iranian so please explain what was promised to the Iranian 3,000 years ago?

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

You really haven't provided any evidence to show thar Maccabi have such a dreadful reputation. One link was to Jews marching, another about anti semitism, one was a video of chanting etc.

Gala fans, rioted against the rags, stabbed Leeds fans to death, rioted against Arsenal, caused mayhem in Amsterdam this week, cause trouble in Manchester last season, fought with PSG a couple of years ago, fought with Fenerbache last season, problems with Marseille a few seasons ago, etc etc. The list goes on and on but with Maccabi you find a couple of chants and they are the worst set of fans ever! Give it a rest, they were banned due to trouble the local Muslim community would cause. And why should our game be behind closed doors just ban them as Maccabi were. Oh that's right we know how to behave and the GMP will be able to look after 3k away fans like they always do

I think the difference with City playing Galatassary and Villa last night is at the City game, 99% of City fans won’t be interested in engaging with the away fans outside the ground and that allows the police to contain the away fans much easier and get them inside the stadium.
At Villa, again, the Villa fans wouldn’t have given a toss about the away fans - but a third party were very keen on engaging with them and the police would have had to deal with all sorts of shit, possibly at the airport, New Street Station, inside the Bull Ring and anywhere between the city centre and Villa Park. That is unmanageable and could have led to serious disturbances.

 

[The Norfolk Blue]

Look out for Mark Birbeck - Founder of Our Fight, trying to worm his way out of answering justification for killing babies.

 

[oldius]

Not asked you to condemn Hamas, although any sane person would do so.

I just asked if you if you believe that the Jewish people have a right to self-determination or a homeland in Israel? That's a yes or no question which so far you have avoided. Do you want to answer that specific question.

I said, clearly I think, that I don't believe that any one religion has a right to a homeland or self determination. The people of Israel have a right to self determination. As you rightly highlight, that is 30% Arab, who would rightfully be involved in that democratic process, as are any Jewish people who are citizens of other nations.

 

[oldius]

I see the usual are on here spouting their anti-jew rhetoric.

Fucking grow up.

I haven't seen one anti-Jewish post.

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

I said, clearly I think, that I don't believe that any one religion has a right to a homeland or self determination. The people of Israel have a right to self determination. As you rightly highlight, that is 30% Arab, who would rightfully be involved in that democratic process, as are any Jewish people who are citizens of other nations.

So you are a Zionist then. So how do you feel when people put posters up saying Zionists not welcome and chant about putting Zionists into the ground.

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

Look out for Mark Birbeck - Founder of Our Fight, trying to worm his way out of answering justification for killing babies.

Killing babies, like the Bibas boys?

 

[The blue phantom]

I haven't seen one anti-Jewish post.

You're forgetting pal that an attack on the Maccabi thugs just like an attack on the Israeli government is antisemitic in their eyes.

 

[oldius]

So you are a Zionist then. So how do you feel when people put posters up saying Zionists not welcome and chant about putting Zionists into the ground.

Ooh, you are frivolous.
I condemn violence.
I do not support homelands for religions.
I don't support seizing land and occupying it.
I don't support witholding aid and medicines.
If that is committed in the name of religion then I denounce it. If it is committed in the name of a nation state I denounce it. I couldn't care which religion or state that is.

Where do you sit on these issues?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Anti-Zionism is not antisemitic … if that is what you are insinuating?

Another piece of propaganda shite.

Yes it fucking well is. Antizionism is a denial of Jewish self-determination and therefore antisemitic by default.

Criticism of the Israeli government or criticism of right wing, nationalist expansionism isn't in itself antisemitic but the basic concept of Zionism was the desire for a home for Jewish people where they escape often murderous antisemitism.

You simply cannot demand a Palestinian state without also recognising the need for, or legitimacy of, an equivalent Jewish state. Antizionism is the denial of a Jewish state.

 

[The Norfolk Blue]

Another piece of propaganda shite.

Yes it fucking well is. Antizionism is a denial of Jewish self-determination and therefore antisemitic by default.

Criticism of the Israeli government or criticism of right wing, nationalist expansionism isn't in itself antisemitic but the basic concept of Zionism was the desire for a home for Jewish people where they escape often murderous antisemitism.

You simply cannot demand a Palestinian state without also recognising the need for, or legitimacy of, an equivalent Jewish state. Antizionism is the denial of a Jewish state.

I have 27% Ashkenazi Jewish DNA .... NO IT FUCKIN ISN'T Colin.

 

[mattcity5]

I see the usual are on here spouting their anti-jew rhetoric.

Fucking grow up.

I may have missed the post, but I've only seen anti-genocide posts, not anti-jew. There's a big difference.

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

Ooh, you are frivolous.
I condemn violence.
I do not support homelands for religions.
I don't support seizing land and occupying it.
I don't support witholding aid and medicines.
If that is committed in the name of religion then I denounce it. If it is committed in the name of a nation state I denounce it. I couldn't care which religion or state that is.

Where do you sit on these issues?

I condemn violence. Agreed
I do not support homelands for religions. I can only think of two and that's the Maldives, 100% Muslim and Vatican City, 100% RC
I don't support seizing land and occupying it. You will have a problem with history then
I don't support witholding aid and medicines. Presume you are referencing Gaza. Hamas controlled the area, up to them to sort that out not another country who is being attacked by them. And remember Egypt refused to open their border to allow aid in. 85% of the world's refugees are Muslin yet hardly any of the 50% Muslim countries want to help, why?
If that is committed in the name of religion then I denounce it. If it is committed in the name of a nation state I denounce it. I couldn't care which religion or state that is. Most terrorist atrocities are in the name of religion not a nation state

 

[Chak19]

You really haven't provided any evidence to show thar Maccabi have such a dreadful reputation. One link was to Jews marching, another about anti semitism, one was a video of chanting etc.

Gala fans, rioted against the rags, stabbed Leeds fans to death, rioted against Arsenal, caused mayhem in Amsterdam this week, cause trouble in Manchester last season, fought with PSG a couple of years ago, fought with Fenerbache last season, problems with Marseille a few seasons ago, etc etc. The list goes on and on but with Maccabi you find a couple of chants and they are the worst set of fans ever! Give it a rest, they were banned due to trouble the local Muslim community would cause. And why should our game be behind closed doors just ban them as Maccabi were. Oh that's right we know how to behave and the GMP will be able to look after 3k away fans like they always do

Frankfurt fans were banned, Ajax fans were banned, Maccabi fans were banned, and if Gala fans are banned so be it, I guarantee you the political establishment wouldn't cause such a ridiculous fuss about it like they did with Maccabi fans though for obvious reasons, meanwhile you can continue your defence of the "death to Arabs" brigade, many of them have actually killed Arabs.

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

Frankfurt fans were banned, Ajax fans were banned, Maccabi fans were banned, and if Gala fans are banned so be it, I guarantee you the political establishment wouldn't cause such a ridiculous fuss about it like they did with Maccabi fans though for obvious reasons, meanwhile you can continue your defence of the "death to Arabs" brigade, many of them have actually killed Arabs.

The reason that Maccabi fans were banned was not because of this reputation everyone lies about, they don't have one. They were banned because the locals couldn't be trusted to behave.

 

[Chak19]

If you get your information from pro-Hamas sites or believe everything published on the internet, probably not. But of course it's true, that's an established fact. Thousands of trucks every day. Israel supply them with electricity, water, food and everything they need. Or do you still believe the false propaganda campaign that's been fed to you from a Nazi terror organization? There was no starvation, there is no genocide. There is a terrorist organization with tens of thousands of bloodthirsty killers who are willing for their entire people to die rather than give up power.

Israel doesn't provide them with anything so stop lying, all the aid is from international organizations and donors, and they've prevented thousands of trucks from coming in for two years and spread famine, and the PA is the ony paying for the electricity and water that Israel can cut off whenever they want.

Oh and there is absolutely zero difference between the nazi terror Netanyahu government and the Nazi terror Hamas org, no matter how much you try to hasbara that.

 

[Chak19]

The reason that Maccabi fans were banned was not because of this reputation everyone lies about, they don't have one. They were banned because the locals couldn't be trusted to behave.

They were banned because the police didn't trust the Maccabi hooligans not to chant "death to Arabs" and cause trouble leading to inevitable clashes with local Muslims, that's all but keep believing whatever you want.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I have 27% Ashkenazi Jewish DNA .... NO IT FUCKIN ISN'T Colin.

Sorry but it is. I don't care if you're part Poodle or German Shepherd. Antizionism is the rejection of a homeland for Jews and by definition antisemitic, according to the IHRA.

But antisemites don't accept the IHRA definition because it - erm - shows them to be antisemites.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

They were banned because the police didn't trust the Maccabi hooligans not to chant "death to Arabs" and cause trouble leading to inevitable clashes with local Muslims, that's all but keep believing whatever you want.

The MTA fans were just one part of a potential powder keg involving them, the local community and right-wing agitators. It was probably the right move to ban them under the circumstances but let's not pretend they were the only problem in this toxic equation.

 

[oldius]

Sorry but it is. I don't care if you're part Poodle or German Shepherd. Antizionism is the rejection of a homeland for Jews and by definition antisemitic, according to the IHRA.

But antisemites don't accept the IHRA definition because it - erm - shows them to be antisemites.

If that is the case, someone who rejects the principle of a homeland for any religion is what? Anti religion?