Vinicius Junior

Kippax Street 1880 said:
Really exciting player who would improve any team in the world. Madrid don't lose players like him I'm afraid.
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was news recently hes agreed terms to a new contract and will be announced end of the season but it’s Madrid so who knows
 
burning blue soul said:
1st, don't ever feel sorry for Real. They are as nasty as any extreme fan with the abuse and pressure they inflict on the whole football world.
2nd, although I agree that fans can go overboard (and our league appears to have a decent grip on these minorities), the baiting and banter between fans is what makes going to a football match special. There are some that don't understand where the line is and they cross it, but mostly fans pisstake each other and long may it continue.
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Re. point 2, I agree with you about fans baiting each other being an integral part of the game. However we need to be careful not to conflate that with racist behaviour and hate crime which is what we are talking about here. They are two separate things.

When you call someone a monkey and make monkey noises, it's not going overboard or failing to know where the line is. It's racism and a crime (at least in this country). We should call it out as that and make it clear there is absolutely no place for it in football.

We're not as bad as Spain but we've still got a problem and we shouldn't tolerate it as part of our football culture.
 
threespires said:
Re. point 2, I agree with you about fans baiting each other being an integral part of the game. However we need to be careful not to conflate that with racist behaviour and hate crime which is what we are talking about here. They are two separate things.

When you call someone a monkey and make monkey noises, it's not going overboard or failing to know where the line is. It's racism and a crime (at least in this country). We should call it out as that and make it clear there is absolutely no place for it in football.

We're not as bad as Spain but we've still got a problem and we shouldn't tolerate it as part of our football culture.
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Race is still a huge problem in England. You only have to look at how City’s owner has been treated. Brought in ffp to kick him out.
 
wolviedinho said:
Race is still a huge problem in England. You only have to look at how City’s owner has been treated. Brought in ffp to kick him out.
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There's levels to it.

We still have a lot of insidious, below the surface prejudice and racism, the kind we saw with Sterling in the Sun, but it's absolutely nothing like what we're seeing in Spain.

If a premier league footballer was subjected to extended monkey chanting once, let alone all season, it would be front and back page news for weeks, the government would get involved, it would dominate the entire public discourse. If editors of newspapers came out and said it was the player's fault, they'd be fired. If Richard Masters went on twitter to have a spat with the player, he'd be fired.

In Spain it's been going on for a year, and has only made major headlines now Vinicius has reacted badly to it and the world has reacted, forcing La Liga and Spain into looking like they're doing something.
 
domalino said:
There's levels to it.

We still have a lot of insidious, below the surface prejudice and racism, the kind we saw with Sterling in the Sun, but it's absolutely nothing like what we're seeing in Spain.

If a premier league footballer was subjected to extended monkey chanting once, let alone all season, it would be front and back page news for weeks, the government would get involved, it would dominate the entire public discourse. If editors of newspapers came out and said it was the player's fault, they'd be fired. If Richard Masters went on twitter to have a spat with the player, he'd be fired.

In Spain it's been going on for a year, and has only made major headlines now Vinicius has reacted badly to it.
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I agree with all of that

BUT

Lots of talking.....does anything really ever get done about it though in the UK?

These people may get stadium bans if identified...but should the punishments be more....ie imprisonment? For me it should mean imprisonment and lifetime bans from football stadiums as well.
 
simon23 said:
I agree with all of that

BUT

Lots of talking.....does anything really ever get done about it though in the UK?

These people may get stadium bans if identified...but should the punishments be more....ie imprisonment? For me it should mean imprisonment and lifetime bans from football stadiums as well.
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At a certain point talking is how you fix it, long term. It comes down to education and establishing in public that racism isn't acceptable, creating awareness of the impact of using racism as a weapon against people - whether in sport or politics or day to day life, and creating an environment that raises children who don't accept those views.

In the UK I think we're at a point in football where it's only individuals who do racist stuff, and they usually get found, arrested, publicly shamed to some extent because their name always ends up in the press (and I imagine this has pretty severe consequences in terms of employment, personal life) and banned from football - which is going to be a deterrent to anyone who can be deterred.

In Spain, or Hungary, or Italy where you have entire stands or stadium chanting racist shit? I'd just close the stands. It hits the clubs in the pocket which incentivises them to fix it.
 
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