Clynn a complete disaster? Outside of Dean Lovren who has been poor this season ( and also plays for a team that doesn't do defending well). Non of the others have been disasters. Clynn and Shaw have been injured. Clynn is actually a top fullback when he plays. Call Chambers was always backup material.Players who've looked good in defence for Southampton and got big moves and been a success: Toby Alderweireld
Players who've looked good in defence for Southampton and got big moves and been a complete disaster: Dejan Lovren, Jose Fonte, Luke "too fat for human clothes" Shaw, Nathaniel Clyne, Callum Chambers
Hard not to worry a bit about how much the Southampton system (which has stayed pretty similar since Poch, despite different managers) contributes to players looking good for them.
I'm sorry, but how is Luke Shaw not a disaster? He cost £30m and isn't even being named in match day squads despite being fit for months while his manager keeps banging on about what a waste of space he is. Chambers is absolutely dog shite and has already been pretty much written off, while Jose Fonte instantly turned into one of the worst defenders I've ever seen the second he signed for West Ham. Clyne hasn't been a complete disaster compared to the others, but he's been bang average at best for Liverpool.Clynn a complete disaster? Outside of Dean Lovren who has been poor this season ( and also plays for a team that doesn't do defending well). Non of the others have been disasters. Clynn and Shaw have been injured. Clynn is actually a top fullback when he plays. Call Chambers was always backup material.
So your comparison is Alderwereld to Lovren. 1 good one bad... Ok
I'm sorry, but how is Luke Shaw not a disaster? He cost £30m and isn't even being named in match day squads despite being fit for months while his manager keeps banging on about what a waste of space he is. Chambers is absolutely dog shite and has already been pretty much written off, while Jose Fonte instantly turned into one of the worst defenders I've ever seen the second he signed for West Ham. Clyne hasn't been a complete disaster compared to the others, but he's been bang average at best for Liverpool.
Lovren is the obvious one. Looked a rock at Southampton but completely exposed at Liverpool in a poorer defensive unit and system. Jose Fonte is a decent centre-back, but he was already way into his 30s when he left Southampton and was never one of their vey best players and joined a very mediocre West Ham side as a result. Luke Shaw flopped at United in the same way Rodwell flopped at City, he got injured and then didn't get fit again - then when he does comes back the manager has changed and he doesn't trust him. Nathaniel Clyne has not been a flop at Liverpool, he's been a very good RB for them for quite a few years now. He's had his injury problems recently but he's still a good player.Players who've looked good in defence for Southampton and got big moves and been a success: Toby Alderweireld
Players who've looked good in defence for Southampton and got big moves and been a complete disaster: Dejan Lovren, Jose Fonte, Luke "too fat for human clothes" Shaw, Nathaniel Clyne, Callum Chambers
Hard not to worry a bit about how much the Southampton system (which has stayed pretty similar since Poch, despite different managers) contributes to players looking good for them.
We are not. 3 key differences here:We are not Liverpool
Personally don't think Rodwell and Shaw aren't remotely comparable. Rodwell was already a crock and regressing badly when we bought him hence why he was cheap, Everton essentially wrote him off as a prospect who didn't live up to the billing. That's something the media love to overlook, but he was miles away from being a genuine prospect when we bought him. Luke Shaw on the other hand was hot shit, everyone was banging on about how signing him was a no brainer because he'd be the best leftback in the league for at least a decade.Lovren is the obvious one. Looked a rock at Southampton but completely exposed at Liverpool in a poorer defensive unit and system. Jose Fonte is a decent centre-back, but he was already way into his 30s when he left Southampton and was never one of their vey best players and joined a very mediocre West Ham side as a result. Luke Shaw flopped at United in the same way Rodwell flopped at City, he got injured and then didn't get fit again - then when he does comes back the manager has changed and he doesn't trust him. Nathaniel Clyne has not been a flop at Liverpool, he's been a very good RB for them for quite a few years now. He's had his injury problems recently but he's still a good player.
Callum Chambers is still very young for a defender, I'd give him more time at Arsenal before judging too harshly.
I work with two rabid Scousers who reckon Clyne is the dogs bollocks. He's more than given a good account for himself every time I've seen him play. Just goes to show how differently 2 pairs of eyes view the same thing innit..I'm sorry, but how is Luke Shaw not a disaster? He cost £30m and isn't even being named in match day squads despite being fit for months while his manager keeps banging on about what a waste of space he is. Chambers is absolutely dog shite and has already been pretty much written off, while Jose Fonte instantly turned into one of the worst defenders I've ever seen the second he signed for West Ham. Clyne hasn't been a complete disaster compared to the others, but he's been bang average at best for Liverpool.
Mourinho certainly seems to have thrown him under a bus but the only negative thing I've ever read about him by Poch is one quite which said his head wasn't quite in the right place at 18 in a quote in a book. I'm not sure I would read too much into that.Tbf to Shaw he had a massive injury, the guy was voted the in the PL TOTS at 18 and went to the WC in Brazil. But, his poor attitude was noted by both Poch and Mourinho
So basically Oscar's point lacks context. That's what I thought.Lovren is the obvious one. Looked a rock at Southampton but completely exposed at Liverpool in a poorer defensive unit and system. Jose Fonte is a decent centre-back, but he was already way into his 30s when he left Southampton and was never one of their vey best players and joined a very mediocre West Ham side as a result. Luke Shaw flopped at United in the same way Rodwell flopped at City, he got injured and then didn't get fit again - then when he does comes back the manager has changed and he doesn't trust him. Nathaniel Clyne has not been a flop at Liverpool, he's been a very good RB for them for quite a few years now. He's had his injury problems recently but he's still a good player.
Callum Chambers is still very young for a defender, I'd give him more time at Arsenal before judging too harshly.