Well done boss

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Pablo1 said:
Pep doesn't have a reputation to rescue.
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Maybe not, if you consider going 3 years with this Bayern squad (assuming he doesn't win it this year obviously) without winning the champs lge to NOT be damaging to his reputation. Personally I do, as do many Bayern fans who watch his team every week. Equally, if...IF, a team full of shit players and lazy wankers (according to many on the match day thread since the game after Pellers won his first league cup with us), managed by a "fucking corpse" and a "senile fucker" (match day thread again) were to win it this year I would say Pep's special reputation would be holed below the waterline very badly.

I'd love that to happen, wouldn't you?
 
BrianW said:
In some ways it will be hugely ironic if we win the CL this year. (Not that I really expect to.)

Even better if we win it with a goal from Bony in the last ten seconds of injury time. People's heads would explode.
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Bony header from a Sterling assist. I'll laugh my cock off if it happened.
 
Pablo1 said:
So you're basing their ability on the next couple of games and dismissing the sheer weight of evidence that points to Pep being superior over the last 6 years or so?
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I don't think anyone doubts that pep is the better manager (speak now, or forever hold your peace), but I think in terms of trophy's, Pep will do very well to usurp Pellers in a similar time frame. Hope I'm wrong and we conquer the world, but it's a big ask.

But, I'm looking forward to seeing what unravels before our eyes next season
 
schfc6 said:
Yes, I'm offering both sides of the arguement. It so very basic.

I'm offering your own arguement against you.

Both you and dribble believe he plays a derivative of 442. Yet you don't believe Txiki is buying the players.
My arguement, if Pellegrini is indeed playing 442 as YOU say then why are we or is he not buying players to suit his desired formation?
If Pellegrini likes 442 as YOU say, why aren't we signing players to suit?

It's a very basic point that proves there's obviously a conflict between the two by your own reckoning.

I think and have always thought Pellegrini is trying his best to accommodate the players he's been given. He's not really playing a system he likes, he's playing one to suit the players he's been given.

It's a painfully basic arguement. I think Pellegrini wants to play one way and the club are aiming for another way. The 4222 or 4231 or however you see it is an unbalanced compromise.

It's my opinion, I have given arguement to back it up. I won't change it because two people on the Internet say I'm wrong with absolutely no counter arguement.

I have a very basic arguement using your point against you. You say Pellegrini wants to play 442. Regardless of my opinion, if he does want to play 442. Why aren't we signing the players to suit? You know the answer, it just deflates your point, would mean saying you're wrong.

I have highlighted De Bruyne's touch map as it goes to discredit you. He isn't playing as a striker. Thus it's not a 442. Or a 4222. I personally believe Pellegrini attempts a basic 4231. That isn't balanced due to squad. I have always maintained this. It lines up more like this.
GK
RB.Cb.CB.LB
....DM.....
....CM.....
RW.IF...Nobody.
.....10........,
.....ST.........

My arguement is an remains. Fernando, Toure and Delph don't suit a 2 in a 4231 or a 442/4222. Toure doesn't suit a 433 with Fernando neither one have the legs to cover the full back. Toure could play the holding role if we had two Fernandinho's. We haven't.

I don't think Silva, De Bruyne, Navas or Nasri suit a 433. Navas is too one footed, one dimensianal and direct. Nasri and Silva are effective as inside forwards but would need good overlapping full backs. Like Zabaleta used to be. Like Silva would have for Spain. We haven't.
I don't think you buy a £54 million central traditional no ten to instantly change his position.
What I've seen of De Bruyne Pellegrini is using him as he should.

I think Aguero would be isolated in a 433 much like he is when De Bruyne isn't near him. I think if De Bruyne were to play in front a 3 of a 433 it would put far too much pressure on the 3 midfielders for reasons stated above. Limited midfield cover from Toure or Fernando and limited quality overlapping from Clichy or Sagna.

After this summer and the arrival of Pep I think we will have fullbacks suited to a 433. I wouldn't be surprised to see him experiment with Navas or Delph as full backs at some point. I think we'll add players suitable and capable of playing in a midfield two or a three.

Wednesday night saw Pep try a variation of three systems. A 4231/433 depending on where you think Thaigo played with traditional wingers and a traditional number 9. He then tried a traditional 442 with two strikers, traditional wide men and two centre mids. I personally think he exposed Alonso but I could see what he was trying.
I think he will use these same three basic floor plans at City.

But Bayern have 4 world class wingers, all four can hug the touch line or can be inverted wingers cutting in or can play as inside forwards.
Costa, Robben, Ribery & Coman offer far more options and flexibility than Navas, Sterling, Nasri and Silva.
I think De Bruyne and Muller are as flexible as each other but with different qualities.

Do I even need to rationalise the difference between Fernando, Delph, Ya Ya and Fernandinho with Thiago, Alonso, Martinez, Alaba, Gotze, Rode, Vidal, Lahm and Kimmich? Their options for central midfield highlight just how inflexible our squad is.

Guardiola has flexiblity becuase either he or his director of football or similar title in Germany facilitate that.

I believe between Txiki and Pellegrini have made a bit of a pigs ear of our squad.

It's not a witch hunt against Txiki, I'm offering my opinion and comparing his job to our supposed rivals. His job is to build a side capable of competing with the very best. Navas, Fernando, Sagna and Clichy absolutely must start in Madrid. Would any of them even make the bench for Real? Bayern? Atleti?

You're so hung up on your pathetic name calling of Pellegrini that you think others are as petty as childish as stupid. Thinking differently to you, having my own opinions, believing someone can do better, offering reasons where and why I believe he has under achieved is not a which hunt. Appearing on nearly every thread from EDS to Sterling's spouting your anti Pellegrini and childish name calling could however be considered a witch hunt.

I think Pellegrini and Txiki have a lot to answer for over the last 3 years. I don't blame one person and I don't use childish and moronic insults.

If you think it's all Pellegrini's fault then fine. Personally I think this squad being a draw away from the CL final is a pretty decent effort, but you're entitled to your opinion.

If you think that Txiki has built a squad to rival the European elite, in my opinion you'd be wrong.



Messi, Suarez & Naymar.
Bale, Ronaldo, Benzema
Robben, Lewandoeski, Muller
Navas Aguero De Bruyne.

Rakatic, Busquets, Inesta
Isco, Kroos, Modric
Vidal Alonso Thiago
Fernando, Fernandinho, Toure.


I repeat, I don't blame Txiki or Pellegrini, I think they both carry responsibility for a variety of reasons.

For the record, I was a Mancini fan. It was time for him to go.
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Telephone numbers ;-)
 
Kazzydeyna said:
Nope, I'm basing it on the last 3 years. Years in which they have both had similar quality squads (albeit with Bayerns being slightly stronger) , and both operated in similar leagues (albeit Germany being easier for a "big" club to win the league in due to the strength of the EPL from 1-19 (excluding villa as there is one of these type teams most years), years in which pep's team has had 3x winter breaks and played less games, certainly less highly competitive games.

If pep wins it this year and Pellers therefore doesn't, for me he has the edge, just. If neither win it this year, I'd put them about level. If Pellers wins it this year, then for the reason already stated, Pellers would be surely seen by most people as a superior manager.

The ideal scenario would be for Pellers to win it this year and pep to rescue his reputation by winning it in the next 3 years surely?
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Magic. Everyones a winner. ;-)
 
I hope Pellers does win the UCL this year but, if he does, that won't make him a better manager than Pep. Winning any cup has an element of lottery about it. I think City were the best team in this year's League Cup but had to win the final on penalties...
 
mosssideblue said:
I don't think anyone doubts that pep is the better manager (speak now, or forever hold your peace), but I think in terms of trophy's, Pep will do very well to usurp Pellers in a similar time frame. Hope I'm wrong and we conquer the world, but it's a big ask.

But, I'm looking forward to seeing what unravels before our eyes next season
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I'm not sure if better is the right word. Pellers is more experienced because he's older. From watching Pep the other night he's clearly more energetic (i can see the pell haters now laughing at the fact anyone with a heart beat is more energetic than pellers). They're just different. Certainly in personality...probably in approach to the game, motivation and tactics. Contact wise for purchases i would think Pep has a higher attraction because of his standing in the modern game having come from 2 of the world's largest clubs. Pellegrini is very wise & a great communicator. Pep seems more of an energetic motivator...maybe he can relate to younger people because he's younger. Pellers is great. I'm sure Pep will be too ;-)
 
OB1 said:
I hope Pellers does win the UCL this year but, if he does, that won't make him a better manager than Pep. Winning any cup has an element of lottery about it. I think City were the best team in this year's League Cup but had to win the final on penalties...
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So what makes Pep the better manager then? Winning a few league titles with Bayern and Barca? We can obviously discount his cup and CL wins as they're a lottery.
 
schfc6 said:
De Bruyne is a 10. He's deployed in that role at MANCHESTER City. He is not nor has he ever played in a central midfield 3 for club or country. That puts an end to that.

With regars to your point about Tuesday night, what tactical tweak do you suggest?

I agree with regards spending 50 million shite. To me, we needed a centre mid far greater than Sterling and De Bruyne. Silva and Nasri's issues have made that far less obvious.

Navas gets my nod because there's no way we could start a big CL game without him. As our midfield options don't support it.

No, BVB and PSG still have superior midfields to us, as do Juve. I was comparing us to the very elite.

His recorded braking system was Identical to the one he's played all season.
Back four. 2 holding midfielders, silva in a ten.


Again though, your argument is just your opinion. It has zero substance. Just a list of your mind numbing opinions with nothing to back them up. Like always.

Fuck it, you're right. He's a clueless ****. If only he knew what you did. Let's all act like children and call him names.
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Ffs it's so incredibly difficult to explain anything to you as you don't seem to remember the points you youself have been making.
i was referring to your assertion that DeBruyne was playing in a 3 behind Aguero not centre mid ffs.

Your own description puts him IN FRONT of the other two THAT'S IN FRONT OF SILVA & NAVAS NOT IN A 3 ALONGSIDE THEM AND NOT CENTRE MID OF COURSE. That is what I'm referring to.

I supoose you'll forget that now & it will take another 4 replies to establish that or tell me I'm claiming he plays fullback or centre forward again as no doubt you have forgotton what I said about that again now.

I can't be arsed anymore as I think you are deliberately wasting people's time rather than having a genuine discussion.
 
schfc6 said:
It's actually a terrible arguement. Well not arguement. A list of baseless statements with no argument attached. All you and Neville have done is offer a list of statements with no factual basis.
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If you're talking about the list I posted in reply to you, all I've done is listed your arguments. Provided you with a mirror (if you like) so you can look at yourself and see what others can see. Worrying isn't it?

It's very simple. Do or does our manager like to play 442/4222 in your opinion? If the answer is yes, then why aren't we signing the players to suit?
If no, what formation do you think he prefers?
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Yes. We have have the players, it's how and where they are deployed is what many people have an issue with. Example: On Tuesday after Silva went off it was obvious to me and everyone around me that the most logical substitution to make was Silva-> <-Sterling. I've nothing but admiration and high hopes for Kelechi, but we were doing well against one of the top three teams in the world and needed to maintain what was working, so why on God's earth Manuel decided to bring on Kelechi is beyond me and all those around me!

As I keep telling you, a good manager will play the hand he's dealt to the best of his ability, that one substitution made us worse and most fans could have made that crucial call so why couldn't Manuel? I'm sorry, but episodes like this have been all too common with Manuel and will unfortunately come to characterise his time here.

If employing a manager whilst already in talks with his replacement is a standard procedure, it should be easy to give examples of it happening in the past. Can you offer one?
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Bloody hell, where do I start with this one...... Erm Royle, Keegan, Pearce, Sven, Hughes, Mancini, Pellegrini, Guadiola? There's 8 for you.

I believe there is a clear directive from the top of how we are expected to play. I believe there's a possibility that the director of football may be influencing the manager. I have given examples of this happening before. Our very own manager has said it's happened to him in the past. It's widely reported that issues between the director of football and managers has caused issues at Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs. So why is it such a stretch to believe it's happening here? Do you have any counter arguement to that? Or just a simple 'it doesn't'?
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The onus of proof is on you fella as you're the one making the 'influence' claim and from what I can see you're the ONLY one making this claim and you have NO PROOF only your opinions!!! OK let me make it very simple for you - Txiki 433 / Manuel 442/4222. Doesn't sound like a man having his strings pulled to me fella and saying we want to play attacking football doesn't constitute interference or very little in the way of interference.

Yes, I believe that Pep will have a greater influence on signings. I believe he is the man they see will shape the future of the club. I think it's fairly common place to try and build something with people you've worked with and trust. I believe Pep is the man Txiki sees important in our growth. I believe we have seen Pep as somewhat of the final piece.
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OK, so in Atlantis you and Elvis still believe that in 3 years, Pellegrini has had no influence over the players we've sought and bought in his time here? Like you I have no proof, but I find it hard to believe and I'm not going to start constructing conspiracy theories that would be a stretch to believe even if the appeared on the X Files to back up my opinion. Again you're the one making the claim, so the burden of proof is on you fella as not even logic can bridge the gap between your opinion and the probable truth.

You are totally misunderstanding me. I fully agree with the first paragraph. I've wrote similar elsewhere and spent hours in the pub explaining to some oldies the pros of our new system. I am fully on board with it. I understand why Mancini was pissed off, but I personally prefer our system.
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Which pub do you frequent? No offence, but I just want to know where to avoid. Actually let me know so I can send in Age Concern to rescue the 'Oldies' you're probably pushing quicker to the trap door than would normally be expected.

As for the rest of that post, again it's deja vu. It's been answered to death and you still don't get it so I'll leave you with it again as it must be time for Sheargar's night time feed.
 
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