What's the difference?

[taconinja]

Couldn't we just put Zabaleta in place of Boyata? Am I missing something? I took my allergy meds a few minutes ago and they make me wonky.

You're asking the wrong person mate!

It's Damocles team, not mine!

I've noticed the source of my confusion. I misread "would want Zabaleta to play on the left flank" as "would NOT want Zabaleta to play on the left flank."

Apologies.

And yeah, that does make me wonder what we would do at RB.

 

[ST Coleridge]

Good post Damocles. I presume Liverpool'll play Spearing (Gerrard), Lucas & Meireles in midfield, so we'll need Barry back just to ensure even numbers.

Given their fullback situation, I'd have Silva stay wide, with Johnson on the other side. Tevez up front on his own.

Back to the 'boring' old 451 then, if I had my way ;). Try and hit them on the break.

 

[gio's side step]

Damocles, you are perhaps the most apprehensive poster on bluemoon.

My pet hate in football is allowing the opposition space and possession in front of your own defence. You can have the best defence and goalkeeper in the world, but if a team get into that spot ten times in a match, you've been beaten.

We got away with it at Sunderland because our centre backs played well and they shown a lack of inventiveness. Liverpool won't have the same problem, and it's a real concern against them and the rags.

Your concern is more relevant and critical to European football. The nuances of tactical formations and players defending / playing between the lines is more European. The PL is more about pace and power, hence there are not many teams in this division who would cause us a real danger in the space just in front of our back 4, one because they are not that intelligent and two, because not many teams have players who can play there and be a real penetrative threat. The threats we have encountered more this season, have been corners earlier on in the season with the zonal marking, not stopping crosses (kolarov mainly) and the opposing team having width and getting in behind us with pace (kolarov again mainly). You mention the top sides, but I would not put Liverpool in that bracket at present.

And the difference between you and I, is that I'm more concerned with what we can do, rather than the opposition. That isn't naivity when you have the squad we have. Liverpool have far more to worry about, than we do.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

My pet hate in football is allowing the opposition space and possession in front of your own defence. You can have the best defence and goalkeeper in the world, but if a team get into that spot ten times in a match, you've been beaten.

We got away with it at Sunderland because our centre backs played well and they shown a lack of inventiveness. Liverpool won't have the same problem, and it's a real concern against them and the rags.

Your concern is more relevant and critical to European football. The nuances of tactical formations and players defending / playing between the lines is more European. The PL is more about pace and power, hence there are not many teams in this division who would cause us a real danger in the space just in front of our back 4, one because they are not that intelligent and two, because not many teams have players who can play there and be a real penetrative threat. The threats we have encountered more this season, have been corners earlier on in the season with the zonal marking, not stopping crosses (kolarov mainly) and the opposing team having width and getting in behind us with pace (kolarov again mainly). You mention the top sides, but I would not put Liverpool in that bracket at present.

And the difference between you and I, is that I'm more concerned with what we can do, rather than the opposition. That isn't naivity when you have the squad we have. Liverpool have far more to worry about, than we do.

Dead right, and a discussion I tried to open in the other thread. We went out to beat Sunderland, let's go out to beat Liverpool and United. This obsession with dominating the midfield and closing out the space Dammers refers to has meant we have lost pratcially every "Big" game we've played for the last 18 months.

Liverpool would be a good place to continue with "New City". We've got nothing to fear from them, they're not that good. We need a win, a draw would be a disappointment. Let's go and do it.

And let's go and do it to United as well. If you get on top of their midfield, they use their width to get behind you. If you play holding midfielders and they sit too deep, that allows a space to play in and to get the ball wide. We are flawed at full back if anywhere, particularly left back. Let's get out there and take the game to them.

I bet he won't. I bet we'll have Ya ya Toure plodding around the attacking midfield area losing our momentum again, and our two holding players sitting in front of the back four.

But I retain hope after the weekend...

 

[WNRH]

Your concern is more relevant and critical to European football. The nuances of tactical formations and players defending / playing between the lines is more European. The PL is more about pace and power, hence there are not many teams in this division who would cause us a real danger in the space just in front of our back 4, one because they are not that intelligent and two, because not many teams have players who can play there and be a real penetrative threat. The threats we have encountered more this season, have been corners earlier on in the season with the zonal marking, not stopping crosses (kolarov mainly) and the opposing team having width and getting in behind us with pace (kolarov again mainly). You mention the top sides, but I would not put Liverpool in that bracket at present.

And the difference between you and I, is that I'm more concerned with what we can do, rather than the opposition. That isn't naivity when you have the squad we have. Liverpool have far more to worry about, than we do.

Dead right, and a discussion I tried to open in the other thread. We went out to beat Sunderland, let's go out to beat Liverpool and United. This obsession with dominating the midfield and closing out the space Dammers refers to has meant we have lost pratcially every "Big" game we've played for the last 18 months.

Liverpool would be a good place to continue with "New City". We've got nothing to fear from them, they're not that good. We need a win, a draw would be a disappointment. Let's go and do it.

And let's go and do it to United as well. If you get on top of their midfield, they use their width to get behind you. If you play holding midfielders and they sit too deep, that allows a space to play in and to get the ball wide. We are flawed at full back if anywhere, particularly left back. Let's get out there and take the game to them.

I bet he won't. I bet we'll have Ya ya Toure plodding around the attacking midfield area losing our momentum again, and our two holding players sitting in front of the back four.

But I retain hope after the weekend...

Is that you Redknapp? ;-)

Seriously, we cannot go to Liverpool and play the same as we did against Sunderland, football just doesn't work like that. We can go there and give it a go but whilst they are weak in defence, they are dangerous upfront.

Also your comment about the big games in the last 10 months is wrong.

Chelsea: P3, W2, D0, L0
United: P5, W1, D1, L3
Arsenal: P3, W0, D2, L1
Spurs: P2, W0, D1, L1
Liverpool: P2, W1, D1, L0

4 wins, 5 draws, 5 defeats

Hardly

This obsession with dominating the midfield and closing out the space Dammers refers to has meant we have lost pratcially every "Big" game we've played for the last 18 months.

 

[gio's side step]

Dead right, and a discussion I tried to open in the other thread. We went out to beat Sunderland, let's go out to beat Liverpool and United. This obsession with dominating the midfield and closing out the space Dammers refers to has meant we have lost pratcially every "Big" game we've played for the last 18 months.

Liverpool would be a good place to continue with "New City". We've got nothing to fear from them, they're not that good. We need a win, a draw would be a disappointment. Let's go and do it.

And let's go and do it to United as well. If you get on top of their midfield, they use their width to get behind you. If you play holding midfielders and they sit too deep, that allows a space to play in and to get the ball wide. We are flawed at full back if anywhere, particularly left back. Let's get out there and take the game to them.

I bet he won't. I bet we'll have Ya ya Toure plodding around the attacking midfield area losing our momentum again, and our two holding players sitting in front of the back four.

But I retain hope after the weekend...

Is that you Redknapp? ;-)

Seriously, we cannot go to Liverpool and play the same as we did against Sunderland, football just doesn't work like that. We can go there and give it a go but whilst they are weak in defence, they are dangerous upfront.

Also your comment about the big games in the last 10 months is wrong.

Chelsea: P3, W2, D0, L0
United: P5, W1, D1, L3
Arsenal: P3, W0, D2, L1
Spurs: P2, W0, D1, L1
Liverpool: P2, W1, D1, L0

4 wins, 5 draws, 5 defeats

Hardly

This obsession with dominating the midfield and closing out the space Dammers refers to has meant we have lost pratcially every "Big" game we've played for the last 18 months.

BUT, we are far more dangerous up front. We have far greater attacking potential, and we are far better at the back. AND, we are far better in the middle of the park. It's not rocket science. Stop with all this apprehensive shit. If we go there and play within ourselves again, we end up battling to win whatever type of game unfolds in front of us. We can't predict that. However, if we go there, with courage, and belief in our ability, to not stifle them, but to hurt them in an attacking sense, we have the team more capable of winning the game.

They are a better side than Sunderland, but they are much weaker than us.

 

[ST Coleridge]

Seriously, we cannot go to Liverpool and play the same as we did against Sunderland, football just doesn't work like that. We can go there and give it a go but whilst they are weak in defence, they are dangerous upfront.

See, this is the thing - it's called balance. A casual Bluemoon observer might be forgiven that football can only be played either 'gung ho' or 'park the bus'.

The truth is, he'll want to adequately contest the battle in midfield, be solid defensively and look to counter effectively. This is what the rags, Chelsea, Tottenham would all aim to do at Anfield.

 

[Rammy Blue]

Not sure if this has been posted. I was slightly lost as to (a) why Mancini took off Boyata in the second half (was he injured?) and bring on a young left footed player at right back? I ask because, as far as I could see, Boyata was (a) having a good game, and it's not like we were taking off a senior player who had played 20+ games and (b) because Logan had played for EDS at full back in the previous few games and is right footed isnt he?

I found that a little strange. The young lad did okay, but I'm really not in favour of left footed players playing right back on any level.

Boyata had a knock, carried on but once we were strolling it he got him off and gave Ryan a run-out.

Don't think Boyata trained today.

 

[gio's side step]

Seriously, we cannot go to Liverpool and play the same as we did against Sunderland, football just doesn't work like that. We can go there and give it a go but whilst they are weak in defence, they are dangerous upfront.

See, this is the thing - it's called balance. A casual Bluemoon observer might be forgiven that football can only be played either 'gung ho' or 'park the bus'.

The truth is, he'll want to adequately contest the battle in midfield, be solid defensively and look to counter effectively. This is what the rags, Chelsea, Tottenham would all aim to do at Anfield.

ST, that is far too general. We have to take the particular context of next week. We are going on the back of a 5-0 home win regardless of the formation debate. Liverpool are coming off the back of an away defeat at West Brom. They have some significant injuries. It's not going to Liverpool against a full strength side, or against a really top Liverpool side.

He will want to control the game, no doubt about that. He will want us to have the dominant posession stats. And you are right about balance. But you need to have balance in your own point. Critiquing apprehension, doesn't mean advocating gung ho tactics. It means, going there with no regrets, because we believe we are the better side, and we intend to make sure we create enough clear cut chances in order to give us a more significant chance of winning the game. If that means taking the chance of being less tight just in front of our back four, then against this particular Liverpool side, I would argue thats a chance certainly worth taking. There is an opportunity to really do a number on them. Im talking about a 2-0 or 3-0 away victory. Born out of total domination. Total control. Silencing the kop throughout. Not born out of 2 or 3 counter attacks, and lots of defending corners etc.

We are so superior to this liverpool side on paper. And I really believe we can show it on the pitch if we stop obsessing with 'oh we will need to make sure we close this space down, oh we will need to make sure we don't committ too much forward'. Yes, of course. But trust the players. Trust De Jong to sit, and be good enough. Trust Toure to offer us so much more than Spearing, Lucas or Miereles will offer them. Trust Johnson to offer us so much more than Kuyt. Trust Silva to offer us so much more than Maxi. etc etc.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Seriously, we cannot go to Liverpool and play the same as we did against Sunderland, football just doesn't work like that.


You set up 4-4-2 again.

You go out to win.

Please tell me why football doesn't work like that.

There are some odd dynamics around this forum today, really odd, a strange form of desperation with an undercurrent of nastiness. I think I can guess why too.