What's wrong with the Premier League top teams?

[supercrystal7]

Last 30 years only been won 4 times by English team. Nothing strange about this season if you think about It. This theory of bottom teams in prem better than bottom of other leagues where's the stats to prove this myth.

It's not just about winning or even the fact that no English team are in the quarter finals. It's also about the performance. Had Chelsea lost on away goals without a red card, had City lose narrowly, had Arsenal lost to Bayern, had Liverpool had a group of death then things might have been different. It's the manner of the defeats. Liverpool were annihilated by Madrid at Anfield and outplayed by Ludogorets/Basel. Arsenal second to a weak Dortmund and then Chelsea outplayed by 10 PSG. Also it's not just this year, but a constant for the last 3/4 years.

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In 2012 our results were carried by Chelsea fluking their way to a win and in 2011 United got to a final, but a fortunate draw.

As for winning the CL, in the last 30 years German clubs have only won it 3 times and Portuguese teams 2, Dutch 2 and then once for French, Serbian and Romanian teams. It's the Spanish and the Italians that have dominated with 8 each, but the Italians have fallen off since 2010.

 

[afc16]

How does drawing with another team make one team worse? In any other competition football wise, in a draw the points are split evenly. We drew with monaco, chelsea drew with psg. Thats even, a point each. The away rule is an outside factor that has resulted in psg and monaco going through and not related to one team being better then the other. Nobody in there right mind, if they were being serious and put bias aside, would say monaco are a better team then arsenal for example.

We drew 3-3 with ac milan 2 seasons ago but went out, drew 2-2 with bayern think last season but went out. All of these games after 2 legs ended even, same goals scored. Thats 3 times now in recent seasons we've gone out of the competition after DRAWING a game over 2 legs. How can that possibly make sense? And surely it skews the picture over english teams not progressing.

Look, this isn't an argument about the away goal rule either, but you can't use a rule like that to make one team better then another. Winning a football game, in the way football games are won in nearly every other competition in the world for example every league, most other cup competitions, world cups etc (i.e. via scoring more goals then the other team, or by amassing more points then the other team) is what should make one team better then the other.

overall, i don't think the top premier league teams are any worse then at least 5 of the teams still left in the champions, in fact they are probably better or at least level. Yes the other 3 are definitely a few miles ahead at the moment.

 

[nevblue]

Maybe we need to enforce a less physical style of game by using a european pool of referees, like uefa use for their competitions. They at least wont be on 1st name terms with rooney.

 

[CityFan94]

Maybe we need to enforce a less physical style of game by using a european pool of referees, like uefa use for their competitions. They at least wont be on 1st name terms with rooney.

I agree, I think refereeing is a factor.

You make a tackle in the Premiership - no foul.

You make that same tackle in the Champion's League - foul and a yellow card.

The refereeing in the Premiership and Champion's League is miles apart and it's got to be tough for the players to adjust.

 

[mancity1]

They are no good simple as compared to the best sides from Europe anyway.

 

[BigOscar]

How does drawing with another team make one team worse? In any other competition football wise, in a draw the points are split evenly. We drew with monaco, chelsea drew with psg. Thats even, a point each. The away rule is an outside factor that has resulted in psg and monaco going through and not related to one team being better then the other. Nobody in there right mind, if they were being serious and put bias aside, would say monaco are a better team then arsenal for example.

We drew 3-3 with ac milan 2 seasons ago but went out, drew 2-2 with bayern think last season but went out. All of these games after 2 legs ended even, same goals scored. Thats 3 times now in recent seasons we've gone out of the competition after DRAWING a game over 2 legs. How can that possibly make sense? And surely it skews the picture over english teams not progressing.

Look, this isn't an argument about the away goal rule either, but you can't use a rule like that to make one team better then another. Winning a football game, in the way football games are won in nearly every other competition in the world for example every league, most other cup competitions, world cups etc (i.e. via scoring more goals then the other team, or by amassing more points then the other team) is what should make one team better then the other.

overall, i don't think the top premier league teams are any worse then at least 5 of the teams still left in the champions, in fact they are probably better or at least level. Yes the other 3 are definitely a few miles ahead at the moment.

The rules are set out beforehand, you know the result you need yet fail to get it, that's what makes one side worse than the other. One side gets the result they know they need, the other side fails to. It's a cop out to claim that a draw means you're level, because it's ignoring the rules of the competition. You know the rules, yet fail to match the other team according to them. It's not the mysterious "outside factor" you claim it is, it's clearly stated in the rules.

 

[the blue panther]

Maybe we need to enforce a less physical style of game by using a european pool of referees, like uefa use for their competitions. They at least wont be on 1st name terms with rooney.

I agree, I think refereeing is a factor.

You make a tackle in the Premiership - no foul.

You make that same tackle in the Champion's League - foul and a yellow card.

The refereeing in the Premiership and Champion's League is miles apart and it's got to be tough for the players to adjust.

We had nothing to complain about this season imho - in fact, Nasri should have been sent off in 2 games and got away with it both times.

 

[GHoddle]

Imo Chelsea would have given Barca a more difficult match, because Mourinho usually gets the upper hand tactically. That can make up for a difference in quality to a certain extent. For the other three English teams in the CL this season, the problem has been the manager, for one reason or another.

Start with Rodgers. So he finally put together a Liverpool team last season that had the potential to win a title, and was scoring goals for fun. Then what does he do? Sells Suarez to Barcelona and buys a bunch of dross in his place. As a result, Liverpool were shit in Europe and are struggling to make the top 4. So not only did he significantly weaken his own team, but he strengthened Barcelona as well.

Wenger it's just the usual story, his teams play good football but like clockwork they finish 2nd in the group and go out in the round of 16. If he wants to have a team capable of challenging for titles then he needs to buy the right players, especially quality defensive players.

Pellegrini yet again screwed up the tactics against Barca in the first leg, which obviously you need to win to have a chance if you are playing the 2nd leg away (where a 1-0 loss isn't that bad). Also I would say like Rodgers the signings he has made have not been of the required quality. City's transfer policy in general seems pretty baffling to me tbh, though maybe I'm not seeing the full picture. But selling Tevez to Juve for peanuts where he is now a key player, buying Negredo then loaning him back to Spain, buying Bony and not playing him much (is Bony even better than Negredo or Dzeko?), paying (imo) way too much for Mangala when you know the potential for getting screwed when buying players from Portugal (Javi Garcia for example).

So what I'm seeing is three managers who are strongly stuck in their ways and two of whom who have been conducting shocking transfer business. Get managers who can tactically adapt and who buy the best players rather than mediocre ones and English teams will start doing better in Europe.

Edit: Just as an addendum to my point: look at the record of Wenger, Rodgers, and Pellegrini against Mourinho. Wenger and Rodgers have never won a match against him, and Pellegrini hasn't won a premier league match against Mourinho since they both came in 2013. That should tell you all you need to know.

 

[pace89]

Imo Chelsea would have given Barca a more difficult match, because Mourinho usually gets the upper hand tactically. That can make up for a difference in quality to a certain extent. For the other three English teams in the CL this season, the problem has been the manager, for one reason or another.

Start with Rodgers. So he finally put together a Liverpool team last season that had the potential to win a title, and was scoring goals for fun. Then what does he do? Sells Suarez to Barcelona and buys a bunch of dross in his place. As a result, Liverpool were shit in Europe and are struggling to make the top 4. So not only did he significantly weaken his own team, but he strengthened Barcelona as well.

Wenger it's just the usual story, his teams play good football but like clockwork they finish 2nd in the group and go out in the round of 16. If he wants to have a team capable of challenging for titles then he needs to buy the right players, especially quality defensive players.

Pellegrini yet again screwed up the tactics against Barca in the first leg, which obviously you need to win to have a chance if you are playing the 2nd leg away (where a 1-0 loss isn't that bad). Also I would say like Rodgers the signings he has made have not been of the required quality. City's transfer policy in general seems pretty baffling to me tbh, though maybe I'm not seeing the full picture. But selling Tevez to Juve for peanuts where he is now a key player, buying Negredo then loaning him back to Spain, buying Bony and not playing him much (is Bony even better than Negredo or Dzeko?), paying (imo) way too much for Mangala when you know the potential for getting screwed when buying players from Portugal (Javi Garcia for example).

So what I'm seeing is three managers who are strongly stuck in their ways and two of whom who have been conducting shocking transfer business. Get managers who can tactically adapt and who buy the best players rather than mediocre ones and English teams will start doing better in Europe.

Edit: Just as an addendum to my point: look at the record of Wenger, Rodgers, and Pellegrini against Mourinho. Wenger and Rodgers have never won a match against him, and Pellegrini hasn't won a premier league match against Mourinho since they both came in 2013. That should tell you all you need to know.

You’re right about Pellegrini’s tactics in the first leg but wrong about the transfers. Tevez left because he’d lost a yard of pace and was earning a fortune so it suited City to get off the books. For a player in the last year of his contract he didn’t go for peanuts and playing for Juve’ in Serie A enables him to perform at a level he probably couldn’t manage consistently in England. Negrado went because his missus was heading back to Spain and Valencia have committed to pay a very decent fee at the end of the season. All things being equal he’d still be at City. Is Bony better than Dzeko? Almost certainly if he can manage more than 6 goals a season, run around a bit and not let the ball bounce of his shins 25 times game.

City beat Chelsea in the cup last season so Pellers has beaten Mourinho – the fact that it was a cup game doesn’t mean that it didn’t count. Even with 10 men we were the better side at home this season and all the games have been quite tight. Not sure you can read much into the relative merits of two managers on the basis of 5 games where only one has ended with more than one goal between the sides.

 

[BayernMan]

Tactically poor from what I've seen...