When should Swales have left?

Big Swifty said:
Isn't all this getting away from the topic of Peter Swales?

Guilty as charged! ;)

Big Swifty said:
Let me tell you a true story of my meeting Swales. It was 1983, and City were drawn at Brighton in the FA Cup. I got a ticket and decided to fly down to Gatwick, get the train to Brighton and be in good time. However, the plane was much delayed and there was no way I'd get my connections and be there for kick-off. On the plane, though, were P Swales and a gaggle of City directors. When it eventually took off I rather cheekily approached Swales's seat and explained that I had paid for a ticket, but was now unlikely to make the match in time, and would the club refund the price as this was not my fault?

Swales said to me "Don't worry, son (yes, he called me "son"), there's a minibus meeting us at Gatwick to take us as fast as possible to the ground. You're welcome to a lift with us." I thanked him, fair enough, and so I sat at the back of the vehicle and wisely kept my own counsel. I listened to the Chairman and the directors talking football, and I assure you I was shocked by the total garbage they were talking - not just factual errors (there were plenty) but the opinions and ideas of people who were running our club, and especially as Swales was an influential FA Committee member responsible, with others, for selecting the England manager. I couldn't believe it.

PS was decent enough to offer me a lift back to Gatwick, but I don't think decency in offering a lift qualifies people for top football jobs.

As I recall, John Bond resigned after that match (we lost 4-0), John Benson took over, and we went down. But the memory of that football chat in the minibus has remained with me for over 30 years. It was a grim weekend.

Not too many BM posters have dealt with Mr Swales, as I have. I may have it on my gravestone.

True, not many will have had the chance to sit and listen to him like that. For what it's worth, the bit of behind-the-scenes footage in the City! documentary screened in 1981 backs that up.

As I mentioned above, 2 or 3 weeks ago I pointed a Newcastle-supporting friend of mine towards this programme. (I was discussing Malcolm Allison with him and he was interested in learning more about Mal). He messaged me a few times as he was watching it, and among his comments were the following:

I'll support the chairman of Manchester City. What I think of him [John Bond], I'll keep to myself." What the f***?? Seriously, what's the point of having him on the board?? Ian Niven, it was.

Swales comes across as a fool. Simply through listening to his choice of words during his interviews and his interactions with Allison. Sorry, but not up to being a chairman of a major club.

This is seriously compelling viewing. Quite addictive, even.

Supports what you say, Swifty. I just post it as a neutral view, because this guy would have had no particular views on PJS before watching that programme.
 
There are thousands and thousands of Peter Swales' in the public sector.

They love the title, the authority and the money but have none of the talent needed for the roles they occupy.

Peter Swales was a decent enough person and he did a lot of nice and decent things on an individual basis but once he was wearing his FA blazer and tie or when he wore his invariably light grey business suit he was simply acting a part he wasnt suited to. He became the leading made when he should only have ever been a scene shifter.

As for Franny, well Franny had all the right ideas and passion for the job but sadly he didnt have the money to do things the way he wanted to.

I was in and around the directors box at the time and I saw them fighting fires and glad-handing in equal measure. I have actually changed my opinion of Franny since my viewing of those desperate times. I did think he deliberately short changed the club and enjoyed the limelight but now I think he was simply let down by a few people who made funding promises they didnt keep and he found he was over extended whilst dealing with Peter's legacy.

There are a few people whose names will never see printers ink who dropped Franny in the poo but that led in the end to Wardle and Makin stepping up.

And the rest is.....well it cant be history as we have none.
 
petrusha said:
Fowlers Penalty Miss said:
No. it's not a lack of debate that intrigues me, and I read your post and found it interesting and informative. I'm not so closed that I can't change my mind about things, but Lee did give us Alan Ball as our manager. Surely that on it's own is enough for a fan like me, who is not privy to the inner workings of our club, to think our chairman at the time was a bit unhinged.

Jobs for the Boys and all that.

Yes, I cared as much about City then as I do now, but Lee wasn't perfect.

Lee made a number of mistakes and I'd never say he was perfect. He was very self-confident and believed he'd be successful, in part I think because he felt that his background would be a big help to him in terms of understanding the football side. Yet in fact, he made some bad football decisions that undermined the rest of what he was trying to achieve. I actually think he was too indecisive with Brian Horton, who should have been either sacked in the summer of 1994 or properly backed, rather than left in post with constant speculation about his tenure and half-hearted statements of support from the club (along the lines that "the board hasn't discussed the manager's position").

Anyway, there's a book, Blue Moon Rising, that tells the story of City in the 1990s up to winning promotion back to the PL in 2000: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Moon-Rising-Fall-Manchester/dp/0953084744" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Moon-Rising- ... 0953084744</a>

The two authors were two local journalists who covered the club in those days, and it has a lot of interviews with key protagonists. It also doesn't make judgements - it pretty well lets the parties involved speak for themsleves (or Swales's widow speak for him, in his case) and leaves readers to make up their own minds. It suggests that Lee had someone else lined up to replace Horton but was let down. That's almost certainly Brian Kidd, IMO. There have been threads about it in the past on here (I may see if I can find one at some point, but something has just happened that means I must dash off the rest of this post and then get to it). Apparently, United wouldn't release Kidd from his contract and he wasn't prepared to walk out.

Kidd would have been hailed as a top appointment at the time, because popular opinion had him down as a major influence on United's success. However, a couple of years later, he took over a better group of players at Blackburn than he'd have had at City, had more money to spend there than we'd have given him, and bombed anyway, taking them down. This all suggests that he'd probably have struggled with us.

The difference with Ball was that most fans were underwhelmed with the appointment when it happened, which wouldn't have been the case with Kidd. I remember trying to look for the positives and suggesting there was hope in the fact that Ball had joined Southampton at more or less the time Lee joined City, had assumed control with them in severe relegation trouble, avoided the drop and finished mid-table the following year. But no, like loads of others I always feared the worst from that appointment. I personally was advocating Mick McCarthy, then in his first job at Millwall, or Martin O'Neill, who'd taken Wycombe to the greatest heights in their history.

Both a risk, admittedly, having never managed at the top level. However, there were no real proven managers available that summer and I felt that an up-and-coming young coach would have been a better bet than someone with Ball's rather chequered managerial past.

We were underwhelmed with Ball's appointment because his chequered managerial past, as you say, was not one that promised any sort of success. The fact Southampton were so willing to release him was a cause for concern at the time for me, and his record of relegation didn't change at City.

I remember his manager of the month award, and laughing my head off when I heard about it.

Internal politics, a rubbish team, and Frank Clark on the horizon!

Thinking back, it's strange to remember just how bad City were as a club and a team in those days, but we muddled through somehow, even with a guitar playing manager who admitted he didn't have a clue what was wrong with City!

It was character building in those days.

A generation has now grown up since then who get upset when we draw at home to Hull City!

How times have changed.
 
To me Peter Swales should have gone when, City were relegated in 1983 .
No way should City have gone down that 1982-1983 season .
And the worst mistake he made was bringing Malcolm Allison back in 1979 .
When John Bond resigned in 1983 .
Swales should have made Tony Book the manager again .
Anyway its all history now but i do feel Swales let the fans and the club down big time .
 
This era really defines City fans through thin and thin. I was a little to young to remember all the Swales era I had just turned 16 when Francis Lee took over.

I remember the protest against Swales he should have been long gone by then.

I'm my humble opinion as mentioned on here alarms bells were ringing on the City documentary. I have watched it on you tube and it's is cringeworthy and bizarre.
 
Mike N said:
The worst thing ever to happen to our club.

Im sure if Gary James contributes to this thread he can confirm that Swales took on a dynamic, financially successful club and turned it into a joke operation and nearly bankrupt us.

And please dont say he was a blue, because we are all blue. His ego was more important than his love for the club.

To answer the question, he should have been kicked out following his decision to bring Malcolm Allison back and allow him to ruin the team and get rid of all our international players.

Swales admitted after he'd been replaced by Franny that he wanted to do 20 years as chairman. That's not having the club's best interests at heart; that's having P. J. Swales' ego at heart.

And if Swales hadn't decided to give Wolves more than TWICE the fee that Allison had agreed for Steve Daley, we might have seen Daley play as well for us as he had for Wolves. That fee ruined Steve Daley, and more importantly, it ruined Manchester City.
 
'Box office to broke' is how someone recently described Swales tenure to me. Quite accurate I reckon. Didn't he exclaim in his first program notes he wanted to eradicate 'show business City' and make us more ruthless like Revies Leeds?
 
oz1975 said:
If he had gone earlier it could have changed the entire course of history and maybe not for the better. Instead of being where we are now we could have ended up like Villa - remember just 5 years ago they were on the verge of competing with us to take the CL place? Unable to make that final push without the investment we had they have now gone into stagnation and a very real threat of relegation. That could have been us if we hadn't had the money to buy players we have in recent years.
I guess what I'm trying to say is for all the shit we went through with Swales, we are now in a good position. Would you swap places with any other team at the moment? I doubt many blues would.



Chelsea at the top of the pile
 

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