Who should be the next leader of the Tory party?

[SWP's back]

*Tory Politicians get jeered all the time tbf. Most of them have the decorum not to respond like that.

Sorted that for you.

 

[hgblue]

Speaking as one of the few Tory voters on here this contest is going to be dominated by the cost of lockdown crisis.

Normally I’d be firmly in the Sunak camp of keeping a tight hold on the public finances, but I fear we’re in such a dire situation that this approach is going to lead us into a recession.

So I’m in the camp that wants to see tax cuts to stimulate the economy, but these tax cuts must be targeted towards reducing costs for everyday working people.

This means anyone looking to slash fuel duty and abolish the tax on domestic fuel gets my vote, because this should help people who are suffering and help reduce inflation which is driven by high fuel costs.

I have a genuinely open mind about who this could be and will be watching the debates closely.

One final thing, the level of diversity on show in this contest is an excellent advertisement for the Conservative party and makes the lazy accusations of racism that get thrown about look pretty silly.

 

[Summerbuzz]

Sunak looks to have made a very good start to me right now, getting good commendations, good public recognition, will keep Grandees and anything-but-tax obsessives very happy, no inteference with rich people, that's for sure. Possibly they will pile on him as a safe bet and look to avoid uncertainty and a long contest.

Me, fuck off. The guy's actually kind of been hopeless, critique of Treasury, Bank Of England and monetary policy has mounted rapidly. He's ideologically far too strange to repair this country.

And for all the attempts to make him a safe thing, there is a long way to go.

 

[SWP's back]

Speaking as one of the few Tory voters on here this contest is going to be dominated by the cost of lockdown crisis.

Normally I’d be firmly in the Sunak camp of keeping a tight hold on the public finances, but I fear we’re in such a dire situation that this approach is going to lead us into a recession.

So I’m in the camp that wants to see tax cuts to stimulate the economy, but these tax cuts must be targeted towards reducing costs for everyday working people.

This means anyone looking to slash fuel duty and abolish the tax on domestic fuel gets my vote, because this should help people who are suffering and help reduce inflation which is driven by high fuel costs.

I have a genuinely open mind about who this could be and will be watching the debates closely.

One final thing, the level of diversity on show in this contest is an excellent advertisement for the Conservative party and makes the lazy accusations of racism that get thrown about look pretty silly.

Yeah regarding your last point , it’s very noticeable that the Tories are the only party to manage to have two female PM’s and that several of the favourites for the next PM are women, ethnic minority or both.

Labour has a long way to go to see such diversity in their leadership.

 

[BobKowalski]

Speaking as one of the few Tory voters on here this contest is going to be dominated by the cost of lockdown crisis.

Normally I’d be firmly in the Sunak camp of keeping a tight hold on the public finances, but I fear we’re in such a dire situation that this approach is going to lead us into a recession.

So I’m in the camp that wants to see tax cuts to stimulate the economy, but these tax cuts must be targeted towards reducing costs for everyday working people.

This means anyone looking to slash fuel duty and abolish the tax on domestic fuel gets my vote, because this should help people who are suffering and help reduce inflation which is driven by high fuel costs.

I have a genuinely open mind about who this could be and will be watching the debates closely.

One final thing, the level of diversity on show in this contest is an excellent advertisement for the Conservative party and makes the lazy accusations of racism that get thrown about look pretty silly.

With Wallace pulling out of the race, and Sunak and Javid seen as the culprits who precipitated Johnson’s removal making it unlikely they will get the gig, the diversity will be more or less uniform, ie the next PM will be a babbling moron devoid of a clue.

It is a motley collection of third-raters and culture war enthusiasts. None of them are up to the job and it will, yet again, end in tears.

 

[Summerbuzz]

Speaking as one of the few Tory voters on here this contest is going to be dominated by the cost of lockdown crisis.

Normally I’d be firmly in the Sunak camp of keeping a tight hold on the public finances, but I fear we’re in such a dire situation that this approach is going to lead us into a recession.

So I’m in the camp that wants to see tax cuts to stimulate the economy, but these tax cuts must be targeted towards reducing costs for everyday working people.

This means anyone looking to slash fuel duty and abolish the tax on domestic fuel gets my vote, because this should help people who are suffering and help reduce inflation which is driven by high fuel costs.

I have a genuinely open mind about who this could be and will be watching the debates closely.

One final thing, the level of diversity on show in this contest is an excellent advertisement for the Conservative party and makes the lazy accusations of racism that get thrown about look pretty silly.

I do wonder how far ahead the likes of Fox and Spencer are thinking.

I bet he does look good now, he will poll ahead of Starmer in a straight up who should lead the country. But the reality is Boris was largely infuriating Tory MPs by pushing popular cash-help policies. Sunak was resisting, has resisted other measures, if I understand correctly. If the popular measures dry up, and the next 18 months go as expected for peopole, he could end up painted as a very mean Tory... and to what end his meanness, when all indications are the outlook is unlikely to improve any time soon.

As for the Racism accusations. Windrush. A stain, an assault on British people, that will never be forgotten or forgiven.

Having a stupidly rich Asian at the top won't stop the accusations, nor will it rob them of authenticity or validity either. Even if he doesn't call people picanninies or whatever.

It's very much a reflection on Inner City populations being lost to the Tories. They won't do anything to help people in those areas, and frequently will positively relish showing complete disrespect.

I just hope they stop playing to the worst instincts of sections of unhappy and flawed white people - and others - in the suburbs. These people, their neighbours, families, children do need the UK to give them that basic form of proper leadership from people who understand the risks and responsibilities of being figureheads.

The politics of fear crushes realism and respect. Boris was coy about this, he'd just wink to the tyrannical minority whose deepest dream is to lord it over every other way of life. In fact I believe Tory MPs have a blind spot to that. It doesn't enter their perception unless it's quite clear literal incitement. That's why Boris' divisiveness is never on their list of things to discuss. The Tories have got to move on now, or they will face tactical voting from a motivated and increasingly undivided section of people sensitive and intolerant of that sort of thing.

 

[jma]

Mmm. Mr Prescott springs to mind.

But of a difference between getting jeered and having an egg thrown in your face from 50cm away. Takes a bit more restraint not to react to the later.

 

[BobKowalski]

I do wonder how far ahead the likes of Fox and Spencer are thinking.

I bet he does look good now, he will poll ahead of Starmer in a straight up who should lead the country. But the reality is Boris was largely infuriating Tory MPs by pushing popular cash-help policies. Sunak was resisting, has resisted other measures, if I understand correctly. If the popular measures dry up, and the next 18 months go as expected for peopole, he could end up painted as a very mean Tory... and to what end his meanness, when all indications are the outlook is unlikely to improve any time soon.

As for the Racism accusations. Windrush. A stain, an assault on British people, that will never be forgotten or forgiven.

Having a stupidly rich Asian at the top won't stop the accusations, nor will it rob them of authenticity or validity either. Even if he doesn't call people picanninies or whatever.

It's very much a reflection on Inner City populations being lost to the Tories. They won't do anything to help people in those areas, and frequently will positively relish showing complete disrespect.

I just hope they stop playing to the worst instincts of sections of unhappy and flawed white people - and others - in the suburbs. These people, their neighbours, families, children do need the UK to give them that basic form of proper leadership from people who understand the risks and responsibilities of being figureheads.

The politics of fear crushes realism and respect. Boris was coy about this, he'd just wink to the tyrannical minority whose deepest dream is to lord it over every other way of life. In fact I believe Tory MPs have a blind spot to that. It doesn't enter their perception unless it's quite clear literal incitement. That's why Boris' divisiveness is never on their list of things to discuss. The Tories have got to move on now, or they will face tactical voting from a motivated and increasingly undivided section of people sensitive and intolerant of that sort of thing.

If, by some miracle, Sunak gets elected he will try and cut public spending for tax cuts which is not what the voters want and neither is it realistic. Defence spending needs to go up, Brexit means ‘we took control back’ so we need a bigger state to administer that control. And all candidates will bang on about free trade while seeking higher trade barriers with Europe.

The Tory party is a hopeless mess of contradictions, which is why most will just talk about ‘Brexit freedoms’ (unspecified) and the ‘dangers of woke’ etc.

When a party cannot deal or face reality it retreats into the comfort of its own ideology and anyone who tries to go against that will not win favour with the narrow electorate they are appealing to.

 

[Vic]

The advantage of VAT is that it is a consumption tax which nobody can evade other than by not purchasing the goods/services in question.. Taxes on wealth (income or capital) are too easily evaded.

It would be perfectly possibly to increase VAT but cut income tax to the point where for everybody earning below a certain level the effect would be cost-neutral - you pay less tax when you earn, but more when you spend and the two cancel each other out - but those who are able to avoid wealth taxes at present via domicile arrangements etc pay their fair share. This would apply to companies as much as individuals so the same problems with avoiding Corporation Tax do not arise.

Not that I think anyone would actually do this.

No-one would increase VAT, you say?

Apart from Thatcher in 1979, denying she'd double VAT before the election and putting it up from 8% to 15% after the election.

 

[Summerbuzz]

But of a difference between getting jeered and having an egg thrown in your face from 50cm away. Takes a bit more restraint not to react to the later.

>60% expresed sympathy in polls related to that event.

Was reflected in the coverage, too, which was generally positive towards him.

This one isn't as big a news but she'll get little sympathy, this is the perception of normal day to day for public figures.

Frankly, she looks over-exhuberant. And like she'd never let herself get within 2 metres of an ordinary person.

It's an ego defence, right? I can only think she is on a narcissistic high, emergency mode, lots of attention, drama, opportunities to advance... uhh I mean all conducting very important business for the country.... comes out to face that.... enraged that they don't respect her.. Normal expectations don't apply....not now.

It is a warning to me, this lot have been in comfy, self-important, self-enriching situations far too long. Next Tory leader HAS to do something. Or the whole lot will get smashed for it.