Who should be the next leader of the Tory party?

[Gabriel]

I don't think it's reductionist at all, I genuinely believe it to be true.

The Tories aren't going to give Scotland another referendum no matter what.

If Scotland returns another 50 SNP MPs next time out, we're far more likely to have another Tory government next time out, so it's a self-harming exercise.

Even if Starmer might not reflect your exact views, ask yourself if Scotland would be better off with him as PM, or Liz Truss.

That's the choice at the next election. We can all say I'd like this, I'd like that, but the stark choice at the next election is Starmer or Truss as PM.

Voting SNP is not going to put Sturgeon as PM. It's not going to get you another referendum. It's not going to get you a coalition. It's just going to increase the chance of Truss being PM.

I suspect many north of the border see no difference between either of those two and will continue to vote for independence supporting parties. Scotland appears to be heading in a completely different direction but we generally seem to be ignoring that and think the people there might be won back by promises of better times. I actually think the main parties understand that, know that it’s only a matter of time before Scotland goes, and are preparing for the political landscape thereafter.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I suspect many north of the border see no difference between either of those two and will continue to vote for independence supporting parties. Scotland appears to be heading in a completely different direction but we generally seem to be ignoring that and think the people there might be won back by promises of better times. I actually think the main parties understand that, know that it’s only a matter of time before Scotland goes, and are preparing for the political landscape thereafter.

I don’t see anyone thinking there’s not much difference between Tories and Labour come general election time, bud. Especially if Truss gets in

 

[mosssideblue]

Couldnt stomach watching them last night , besides love island is still on , anything new other than truss is a woman that will flog us disabled again ?

What's the craic with shafting the disabled?

 

[Magicpole]

I bought the smear? Nothing of the sort. I didn’t put these pricks in power and we’re all in the same boat.

We may as well blame the Scot’s for allowing them to keep power, your votes could‘ve counted but you chose to be stupid and vote for yourself.

Easy all this mud slinging.

No, even if we voted as we used to that utter **** woukd still have won. And of course I know many parts of England hate the bastards as much as we do. The issue is as a whole England keeps voting for them. I was never in favour of Indy, I have more in common with people from my class I n the cities of England than I ever will with hooray Hamish Tory cunts up here. I argued for decades the need for us to join with you to beat them. But, it became clear that no matter how we voted and you for that matter they would win. My hope is if we do get Indy we can show that I’m being a fairer country can be done and maybe convince many in England to demand the same. People talk about how difficult things will for us. Believe me that is better than having they utter cunts rule us. We will be fine and if anybody doubts that, they haven’t a fucking clue about us as a people. We do not buckle, we will get there. It’s not a pop at areas of England who are similar to us in their political outlook, I respect them and as I said have more in common with you than many living here, but, it’s too much now, I am not even convinced we would vote for it, but I hope we do.

 

[Magicpole]

I don’t see anyone thinking there’s not much difference between Tories and Labour come general election time, bud. Especially if Truss gets in

Starmer has moved so far to the right, the difference will be marginal, compared to what needs to be done. It definitely won’t be worse, but radical change is required or it’s still a shit sandwich, only you get to pick the bread.

He sacked a Labour MP, front bench, for standing beside working class men and women fighting for a better deal and to save the jobs of over 3,000 of their guys because the profitability and dividends go up and that suits the City, Tory donors. Privatisation has been an unmitigated disaster, not for the rich, they made a fucking killing, thank you very much. Why do we accept this? I cannot understand how they have turned a class who built every fucking thing you see, who won every fucking war we have ever fought, who held the line during Covid, can be so docile and accept being fucked over by cunts we would knock the fuck out in a one to one square go?

We need to rediscover our channelled ferocity for what’s right and take these cunts on.

 

[mosssideblue]

Starmer has moved so far to the right, the difference will be marginal, compared to what needs to be done. It definitely won’t be worse, but radical change is required or it’s still a shit sandwich, only you get to pick the bread.

He sacked a Labour MP, front bench, for standing beside working class men and women fighting for a better deal and to save the jobs of over 3,000 of their guys because the profitability and dividends go up and that suits the City, Tory donors. Privatisation has been an unmitigated disaster, not for the rich, they made a fucking killing, thank you very much. Why do we accept this? I cannot understand how they have turned a class who built every fucking thing you see, who won every fucking war we have ever fought, who held the line during Covid, can be so docile and accept being fucked over by cunts we would knock the fuck out in a one to one square go?

We need to rediscover our channelled ferocity for what’s right and take these cunts on.

Thought he was sacked for making up policy on the hoof and telling the world

 

[Magicpole]

Thought he was sacked for making up policy on the hoof and telling the world

Timing is everything politics. Starmer told them all not to go on a picket line. The unions created the party that middle class wanker has highjacked. Don’t get me wrong, Many middle class people are sound as fuck politically, no general smear, just he is everything I hate. Pretending to care about working people, but when we need to get off our knees and fight, he takes the knee. I would have told him to go fuck himself if he said that to me face to face, if I was an MP.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Starmer has moved so far to the right, the difference will be marginal, compared to what needs to be done. It definitely won’t be worse, but radical change is required or it’s still a shit sandwich, only you get to pick the bread.

He sacked a Labour MP, front bench, for standing beside working class men and women fighting for a better deal and to save the jobs of over 3,000 of their guys because the profitability and dividends go up and that suits the City, Tory donors. Privatisation has been an unmitigated disaster, not for the rich, they made a fucking killing, thank you very much. Why do we accept this? I cannot understand how they have turned a class who built every fucking thing you see, who won every fucking war we have ever fought, who held the line during Covid, can be so docile and accept being fucked over by cunts we would knock the fuck out in a one to one square go?

We need to rediscover our channelled ferocity for what’s right and take these cunts on.

He didn’t get sacked for standing on the picket, what really happened has been discussed on here.

Starmer’s got a pretty tough job because he needs to get a really broad spectrum of people to vote for him if he’s to kick these Tory cunts out.

You’re obviously into patriotism and military history and I think he’s conscious of that, others are remainders who want us to move on from the past and engage with our neighbours, I’m into the NHS and state education being properly funded, many others want utilities to be nationalised, others want to make sure they have the freedom to be entrepreneurial and start a business.

It’s a tricky dance to be able to appeal to all of those people, without alienating anyone.

I don’t think that means he doesn’t stand for anything or doesn’t have any vision. It’s just he knows he has no chance of getting rid of the Tories unless he has a really broad appeal.

He’s going to say and do things that not all of us are going to agree with. But I think we’re all going to have to make compromises in order to get rid of these diabolical Tory cunts.

 

[Magicpole]

He didn’t get sacked for standing on the picket, what really happened has been discussed on here.

Starmer’s got a pretty tough job because he needs to get a really broad spectrum of people to vote for him if he’s to kick these Tory cunts out.

You’re obviously into patriotism and military history and I think he’s conscious of that, others are remainders who want us to move on from the past and engage with our neighbours, I’m into the NHS and state education being properly funded, many others want utilities to be nationalised, others want to make sure they have the freedom to be entrepreneurial and start a business.

It’s a tricky dance to be able to appeal to all of those people, without alienating anyone.

I don’t think that means he doesn’t stand for anything or doesn’t have any vision. It’s just he knows he has no chance of getting rid of the Tories unless he has a really broad appeal.

He’s going to say and do things that not all of us are going to agree with. But I think we’re all going to have to make compromises in order to get rid of these diabolical Tory cunts.

Great post. A few things, some have been conditioned to believe that by nationalising key sectors and running them properly, that means we can’t have entrepreneurialship. We can. We need to. What’s missing is the action required to make sure the wealth that is generated, means everybody who creates that wealth, get pad enough to live a good life.
And those that are the entrepreneurial section of society make a right few bob, but we create a culture where paying tax to make us a better country, no kids goes hungry, no old person worries about sticking their fucking heating on is seen as cool as fuck. We have always been a creative bunch of cunts. Us Scots have invented so much shit you would need to take a week off work to read about them all. That won’t change, and how much talent is lost to poverty? Opportunity Cost is real. Why is it the working class who always have the belts that need to be tightened? A belt too fucking tight already. We deserve better. We can do this, but halfway houses always leads to halfway to nowhere near enough.

We will need to agree to disagree about Starmer. He was embarrassed and too much of a shitebags to stand for what’s right and inspire the country to believe. He hasn’t the oratory or personality to do that. So he goes for the, don’t rock the boat, hand me that flag, what suits you, ****.

Fight for what you believe in. He doesn’t believe in what most of the working class really need, because he isn’t fighting. That’s why he has little support. He’s like smoke, he drifts wherever the favourable winds go. Sometimes you need to sail into the wind. It’s easy if you adapt your rigging. And have a pair of balls.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Great post. A few things, some have been conditioned to believe that by nationalising key sectors and running them
Properly, that means we can’t have entrepreneurialshio? We can. We need to. What’s missing us the action required to make sure the wealth that is generated means everybody who creates that wealth get pad enough to live a good life. And those that are the entrepreneurial section of society make a right few bob, but we create a culture where paying tax to make us a better country, no kids goes hungry, no old person worries about sticking their fucking heating on is seen as cool
as fuck. We have always been a creative bunch of cunts. Us Scots have invented so much shit you would need to take a week off work to read about them all. That won’t change, and how much talent is lost to poverty? Opportunity Cost is real. Why is it the working class have the belts that need to be tightened? A belt do fucking tight already. We deserve better. We can do this, but halfway houses always leads to halfway to nowhere near enough. We will need to agree to disagree about Starmer. He was s embarrassed and too much of a shitebags to stand for what’s right and inspire the country to believe. He hasn’t the oratory or personality to do that. So he goes for the, don’t rock the boat, hand me that flag, what suits you, ****.

Fight for what you believe in. He doesn’t believe in what most of the working class really need, because he isn’t fighting. That’s why he has little support. He’s like smoke, he drifts wherever the favourable winds go. Sometimes you need to sail into the wind. It’s easy if you adapt your rigging. And have a pair of balls.

I think it’s fair what you’re saying, he needs to have a clearer vision and message.

But I also think the Tories are absolutely tearing themselves apart. The country is falling apart and they seem completely oblivious to it.

The problem he’s got is, the Tories are in limbo, so his ability to be an effective opposition is in limbo also.

His messaging against Bozo will be different from his messaging against Sunak, and different again for Truss because they all have different weaknesses.

Truss being PM is the worst thing that could possibly happen for the country in the short term, I think it will end up with a General Strike and mass civil unrest.

Starmer would be seen as knight riding in on a white horse at that point.

But if he starts joining pickets now, it’s playing right in to Truss’ hands, she’ll just start painting him to the Arthur Scargill to her Thatcher, and the Shires will get behind her on that.

When things go really tits up on a General Strike, she could easily blame it all on Starmer, it’s the only hope she’s got of winning.

I appreciate it’s really shit for the RMT workers right now, but ironically enough I think Starmer keeping his head down is probably his best strategy for winning the election.