Why The Hell Would Anyone Want Mancini Sacked ?

[flb]

Agree 100%, Sam. I am curious as to what United and Chelsea's transfer plans are for this summer. But at the end of the day, we should still have the quality to be prime contenders for the league title next season.

Chelsea have to qualify for the CL first...Not 100% nailed on as yet, this will determine not who they go for,but who will come to them if they fail to qualify..If they do then Im sure the Roman will spend..And his targets will be close to if not the same as ours.

Theres talk of Rooney out and lewandowski (?) in.. Nani could go,also Hernandez,Stevie wonder,scholes etc..

Im hoping United get careless and fail to see the threat that City,Arsenal,Chelsea & Spuds really do offer.. This easy win for them this year could bite them next year if they get cocky..

United will definitely strengthen, of that I'm sure.

They will simply see City last summer not doing as such, and not want to repeat that.

Nani & Anderson will definitely be gone.
Rooney potentially.

Who knows who they'll bring in.

there squad needs more surgery than ours does fella

Evra,Vidic,Wio,Giggs all over 30
Rvp is 30 this year and has looked fucked second half of the season
Rooney's future is in doubt, as is Andersons and Nani
Young is dogshit
Valencia has had a very poor season
Smalling hasnt made the grade to date


They need to spend big big money IMO to get close to what they have done this season.

2 strikers for us and quality wide player should do the trick

 

[bobmcfc]

Can't wait for the FA cup final, we still have a chance to finish on a high if we play at our best.

Then Roll on summer spending spree

 

[FantasyIreland]

Not sure about the first team but something very significant is set to happen soon with our EDS system if everything goes to plan. It's not possible to have a B team in England but think carefully, imagine there is a way around that while accomplishing the same sort of thing...

Our lads go to play in one of our affiliate's 'B' team (Espanyol, for example)?

We would need an instant recall clause,are they possible?

 

[Didsbury Dave]

you can assign predicted positions and use their point totals to see the adjusted cost of each point. This is one method of determining under and over achieving in a quantifiable way instead of relying on more subjective thoughts about who should finish where.

So hold on a minute, are you saying that the cost per point is based on an estimate of how well a team should do i.e. it is not simply cost divided by number of points achieved?

Hahaha

The devil is in the detail. No wonder big frank came out so well.

 

[stony]

you can assign predicted positions and use their point totals to see the adjusted cost of each point. This is one method of determining under and over achieving in a quantifiable way instead of relying on more subjective thoughts about who should finish where.

So hold on a minute, are you saying that the cost per point is based on an estimate of how well a team should do i.e. it is not simply cost divided by number of points achieved?

Hahaha

The devil is in the detail. No wonder big frank came out so well.

But isn't your whole argument about sacking Mancini is that he should have done better in Europe with the squad he has ?
Is it ok for you to base your argument on this but you'll ridicule every one else who does it?

 

[Damocles]

Mate, you're missing the point spectacularly. My point is the same as yours- that stats without context are meaningless, and even with context they only say so much. Mancini coming in fourth here is as meaningful as phil Neil coming in 14th. Both are skewed by small data samples.

My point about pounds per point was facetious but If I was so inclined I could add up our wage bill over the last three years, add in the transfer fees spent and divide it by the points total and Mancini would come at the bottom of a table which had people like Nigel Adkins and Tony Pulis at the top. But I won't because for one, I can't be bothered, and for two, like the win percentages shit I took exception to, and your table, it would be a largely meaningless set of stats.

Fair play to frank Clark though. Maybe we missed a trick with him ;-)

Welcome back to the forum, by the way. We've missed you.

The guys over at that blog have done soething similar already called the TTV or Total Team Value. This is included in how they make their predictions on league places, essentially the adjusted transfer prices + the adjusted wages. There's some flaws in this though, mainly around clubs generally posting wage data as a complete set for ALL staff rather than just playing staff so there's some pinces of salt to be taken in it.

The general rule is that to be anywhere near the CL places consistently, you need about 2.4 times the average TTV of the league. The team with the highest TTV has won the league almost every year since the Premier League's inception, with the only exceptions being City and Chelsea in their early spending years and a somewhat remarkable season by the Arsenal Invincibles.

These aren't meaningless stats, they just aren't really stats you can draw many conclusions from apart from who consistently under or overachieved compared to their predicted TTV. Mancini well overachieved is looking purely at transfer spending; taking into account the TTV of City over the past few years, he's done okay. In particularly, he's achieved the predicted position every year so you can make an argument that whilst he isn't doing badly, he hasn't overachieved but I'm not sure anybody has made that argument either way.

Basically what I'm getting at is that Frank Clark should be City's next manager.

And cheers for the welcome back, alas it's a flying visit. :)

-- Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:28 pm --

you can assign predicted positions and use their point totals to see the adjusted cost of each point. This is one method of determining under and over achieving in a quantifiable way instead of relying on more subjective thoughts about who should finish where.

So hold on a minute, are you saying that the cost per point is based on an estimate of how well a team should do i.e. it is not simply cost divided by number of points achieved?

No, I mean that you can use the adjusted values (the TTV) to see the supposed positions of each club at the end of the season, presuming you subscribe to the notion that the most expensively assembled squads will generally win the league.

You can also see how many points a team got in that season and divide it to see the cost per point.

It was just bad grammar and a badly formed sentence.<br /><br />-- Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:29 pm --<br /><br />

But isn't your whole argument about sacking Mancini is that he should have done better in Europe with the squad he has ?
Is it ok for you to base your argument on this but you'll ridicule every one else who does it?

Also, the numbers only measure Premier League performance rather than any cups or European competition. I'm not sure such metrics exist in the public domain for the European scale.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

He messed up sunday (along with vinnie with another poor mistake in a big game). Let AVB make changes when we were comfortable without covering them or doing anything about the fact we were starting to struggle. After 2 good wins the last 2 performances (considering we should have gone and been 3/4-0 up at spurs the way we were playing) just haven't been good enough, we folded without a fight on sunday, not good enough.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

Chelsea have to qualify for the CL first...Not 100% nailed on as yet, this will determine not who they go for,but who will come to them if they fail to qualify..If they do then Im sure the Roman will spend..And his targets will be close to if not the same as ours.

Theres talk of Rooney out and lewandowski (?) in.. Nani could go,also Hernandez,Stevie wonder,scholes etc..

Im hoping United get careless and fail to see the threat that City,Arsenal,Chelsea & Spuds really do offer.. This easy win for them this year could bite them next year if they get cocky..

United will definitely strengthen, of that I'm sure.

They will simply see City last summer not doing as such, and not want to repeat that.

Nani & Anderson will definitely be gone.
Rooney potentially.

Who knows who they'll bring in.

there squad needs more surgery than ours does fella

Evra,Vidic,Wio,Giggs all over 30
Rvp is 30 this year and has looked fucked second half of the season
Rooney's future is in doubt, as is Andersons and Nani
Young is dogshit
Valencia has had a very poor season
Smalling hasnt made the grade to date


They need to spend big big money IMO to get close to what they have done this season.

2 strikers for us and quality wide player should do the trick

Whilst I agree that this is no vintage United side by any stretch of the imagination, this season alone should indicate to you that it isn't all about who has the best players on paper, but more who can achieve a greater sum that it's parts.

Evra,Vidic,Wio,Giggs all over 30

Evra, Vidic, Wio & Giggs were all 30+ going into this season so nothing drastic has changed here. Every teams needs experience and those players give that. Whilst I don't believe Vidic to be the player he was 2 years ago, it's no coincidence their defensive record improved when he came back from injury during this season. Giggs & Rio will play less games and Evra, whilst far from his peak, still does a job.

Rvp is 30 this year and has looked fucked second half of the season

All strikers go through bad patches in the same way the best players go through purple patches. He's not the type of striker who's relied on pace and agility so age wont affect him in the way that it has done to the likes of Owen etc. He'll still stick 15+ PL goals in next season without a doubt.

Rooney's future is in doubt, as is Andersons and Nani

Nani & Anderson will be shipped out, of that I'm sure of. And, regardless of what we may value them at, there's clubs out there stupid enough to pay between £15-20m for them. Rooney is a funny one. Whether he stays or goes, United will benefit from it, IMO. If he goes, they will replace him with someone more than capable. If he stays, then so be it. He's not a shit player, far from it.

Young is dogshit

He's not a great player, I agree but like I said above, United are a prime example of a team which gets the most out of absolutely everyone, despite on paper them not being a match for the likes of Chelsea or City.

Valencia has had a very poor season

You're right he hasn't. The majority of United fans will agree with you too. Still, there's no reason why he can't improve next year.

Smalling hasnt made the grade to date

Nope, but he's still young and has had a fair few injuries this season.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that the only time people should start getting excited about a United demise is when Fergie retires. Until then, as people have said every pre-season for the 4 or 5 years, their players are getting old and they will go backwards.

"Their team is shit!"
"They have too many old players!"

Same shit, different toilet. I'm fully expecting United to strengthen in the summer because they only have to look at the fact City didn't strengthen as well as they should have done last summer and where it got you.

I'd hazard a guess that this will finally be the year when they sign a proper central midfielder, as opposed to an attacking one. I also expect them to bring another defender in and, certainly if Rooney goes, another striker (and probably a big name too).

Next season should be a proper 3-way tussle. Perhaps more than that if Wenger and AVB are able to splash the cash for once!

 

[Didsbury Dave]

So hold on a minute, are you saying that the cost per point is based on an estimate of how well a team should do i.e. it is not simply cost divided by number of points achieved?

Hahaha

The devil is in the detail. No wonder big frank came out so well.

But isn't your whole argument about sacking Mancini is that he should have done better in Europe with the squad he has ?
Is it ok for you to base your argument on this but you'll ridicule every one else who does it?

You aren't paying attention, mate. My 'whole argument' about sacking Mancini is that he isn't good enough, taking all factors into account.

 

[tonycunninghamsbonce]

Please can somebody start a new thread on the passing of Tony Grealish, ive not got enough posts. Remember his on loan debut at the maine road derby, an absolute animal in a hard fought 1-1 draw, same again in the old trafford 2-2. Thanks for the memories Tony, R I P.