Woolwich killing

[roaminblue]

It is a religion that teaches this but it also breeds a lack of tolerance in many cases, ask Salman Rushdie (RIP) or a certain Danish newspaper. I am an atheist myself and i can not fathom how anybody can declare that people should be murdered for posting an image of something. That just doesn't seem to work in line with teachings of peace and love.

People make these decisions not the religion the Quran teaches you are not to make any depictions of any idol, statue, human or anything else. It says that there should be no false idols but Allah. Man decided to say we shall kill other men for the offense.

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Qur'an 9:29)[22]

You can find things like that in every religious book. In fact, I'd wager all "written" documents from a long time ago. It's not unique to Islam, nor is using relegion to brainwash and promote socio-political objectives. The difference is, religious indoctrination is happening to us, from elements of Islam.

 

[york away to this!]

but "of Muslim appearance"?... how did the guy on the main video "look" muslim?

we know that he is a muslim, and clearly mental, though would you say he was "of muslim appearance" if you saw him going about his usual daily activities (assuming that decapitation in the streets shouting Allah loves Akbar's or whatever is not his usual daily activity)

call me a pedantic wanker, though that's like saying that someone is "of car driver appearance"

 

[TCIB]

People make these decisions not the religion the Quran teaches you are not to make any depictions of any idol, statue, human or anything else. It says that there should be no false idols but Allah. Man decided to say we shall kill other men for the offense.

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Qur'an 9:29)[22]

You can find things like that in every religious book. In fact, I'd wager all "written" documents from a long time ago. It's not unique to Islam, nor is using relegion to brainwash and promote socio-political objectives. The difference is, religious indoctrination is happening to us, from elements of Islam.

Mainly the 3 abrahamic faiths scripture.
Regardless of when written it is what is written that is pertinent.

 

[roaminblue]

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Qur'an 9:29)[22]

You can find things like that in every religious book. In fact, I'd wager all "written" documents from a long time ago. It's not unique to Islam, nor is using relegion to brainwash and promote socio-political objectives. The difference is, religious indoctrination is happening to us, from elements of Islam.

Mainly the 3 abrahamic faiths scripture.
Regardless of when written it is what is written that is pertinent.

Perhaps, but even shintoism in Japan helped facilitate war mongering.

My point is, that if relegions such as Christianity and Islam both say similar things, its clearly not the religion per se, there is some other cause that is contributing towards human actions. It is easy to say that the Koran is full of violence, well so is the bible, so we need to look elsewhere for causality.

Personally, I think anyone who follows a book that is purportedly thousands of years old under the auspices of "faith" is by definition more easily indoctrinated than others.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Qur'an 9:29)[22]

You can find things like that in every religious book. In fact, I'd wager all "written" documents from a long time ago. It's not unique to Islam, nor is using relegion to brainwash and promote socio-political objectives. The difference is, religious indoctrination is happening to us, from elements of Islam.

Mainly the 3 abrahamic faiths scripture.
Regardless of when written it is what is written that is pertinent.

So you don't like Abrahamic faiths as they preach war to unbelievers? Or preach war on the concept of unbelievers.

Yet you frequently claim you'd like to see all believer of Abrahamic faiths die or at least the concept of the faiths die.

What's the difference?

One side hates unbelievers and the other side hates believers.

 

[TCIB]

I see your point and agree in a sense.

However religion has propagated it's self and engrained it's self into society.
What chance does a young mind have when it's own parents tell it this stuff about going to hell and such ?

The religion is affecting people before they have a chance to think free and educate it's self.

I doubt a utopea would come from no abrahamic faith but i bet the world would be more stable than it is.<br /><br />-- Fri May 24, 2013 4:52 pm --<br /><br />

You can find things like that in every religious book. In fact, I'd wager all "written" documents from a long time ago. It's not unique to Islam, nor is using relegion to brainwash and promote socio-political objectives. The difference is, religious indoctrination is happening to us, from elements of Islam.

Mainly the 3 abrahamic faiths scripture.
Regardless of when written it is what is written that is pertinent.

So you don't like Abrahamic faiths as they preach war to unbelievers? Or preach war on the concept of unbelievers.

Yet you frequently claim you'd like to see all believer of Abrahamic faiths die or at least the concept of the faiths die.

What's the difference?

One side hates unbelievers and the other side hates believers.

Very much the at least part thankyou very much !

The difference is i hate people who hate me because i don't think as they do.
How dare another try to impose on another like that.

I want to see the faith die, they want to see me die.
That is the difference.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

I see your point and agree in a sense.

However religion has propagated it's self and engrained it's self into society.
What chance does a young mind have when it's own parents tell it this stuff about going to hell and such ?

The religion is affecting people before they have a chance to think free and educate it's self.

I doubt a utopea would come from no abrahamic faith but i bet the world would be more stable than it is.

I agree that all religion relies somewhat on indoctrination but the notion that indoctrination is exclusively religious is misleading. In the modern day, the press are just as insidious and deceitful as any religious order.

Look at the EDL V Muslims thing, on one side you've got dense pricks who are fed propaganda and taught to hate infidels. On the other you've got dense pricks who believe the shit they read in the Mail/Sun or online and are taught to hate Muslims, or 'pakis' as they tend to call them.

The way to end religion of all kinds is with The Truth but that's withheld from us at every corner so we're destined to play out this bullshit until the end of time.

Religion isn't great, it has horrible elements to it but no more so than consumer based capitalism.

 

[TCIB]

I see your point and agree in a sense.

However religion has propagated it's self and engrained it's self into society.
What chance does a young mind have when it's own parents tell it this stuff about going to hell and such ?

The religion is affecting people before they have a chance to think free and educate it's self.

I doubt a utopea would come from no abrahamic faith but i bet the world would be more stable than it is.

I agree that all religion relies somewhat on indoctrination but the notion that indoctrination is exclusively religious is misleading. In the modern day, the press are just as insidious and deceitful as any religious order.

Look at the EDL V Muslims thing, on one side you've got dense pricks who are fed propaganda and taught to hate infidels. On the other you've got dense pricks who believe the shit they read in the Mail/Sun or online and are taught to hate Muslims, or 'pakis' as they tend to call them.

The way to end religion of all kinds is with The Truth but that's withheld from us at every corner so we're destined to play out this bullshit until the end of time.

Religion isn't great, it has horrible elements to it but no more so than consumer based capitalism.

Indoctrination is not exclusive to religion, i never said that.

I agree the edl are complete idiots who are as ignorant and ill educated as the stereotype they have of all muslims.

That is all i ask in life TMQ, the truth. I find it much better than these old tales of murder and whatnot.

I also agree about consumer based capitalism it has to much of an influence on us.

 

[didactic]

People make these decisions not the religion the Quran teaches you are not to make any depictions of any idol, statue, human or anything else. It says that there should be no false idols but Allah. Man decided to say we shall kill other men for the offense.

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Qur'an 9:29)[22]

Not exactly peace and love!! Not the only ones, the Bible isn't exactly the friendliest bit of fiction i've ever read to be fair.

Worse words are found in the bible and the Torah which claim non Jews are pretty much cannon fodder and not to care for non believers. Those words are also in the context of if you are defending yourself against attacks from non believers. It is not saying go out in the world and just fight people. Remember there were great wars between different faiths?

 

[roaminblue]

Tcib: my phone is not working and couldn't quote for some reason.

I agree, relegion is very engrained and to me, that's a worry regardless of relegion. The thing is, when you take into account Islam, you have to look at the countries from which immigrants come. Lots of countries have relegion interwoven into their society. To the point that the two cannot be separated. But the fact is, that their children are becoming more and more secular. That's just how the cycle works. The problem is, that the ones with the extremist beliefs are so much more vocal.

But polarising communities further isn't going to help the situation, it will inflame it. We have to be accepting, because force is always met by force, but education has been proven time and time again to increase enlightenment.

This can't be seen as "giving in" or any other misplaced machismo rhetoric. It's about ensuring a community can come together to tackle a pox on both Islamic and non Islamic communities.

For what its worth, I also think that muslim women can make more of an impact. In my experience, they are more forward thinking than men.