Would you back a General strike?

[Rascal]

Not sure I’d fall into any of those four camps, tbh. I think the pay offer is absolutely derisory and needs to be improved, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable with NHS staff striking during a pandemic either.

The NHS would not strike in terms of all out, weld the gates shut.

During the Junior Doctors strike, essential services were covered and if needed everyone of them on the picket line would have ran back into the hospital. I know, i was on the picket line at SRFT with the Dermatology Juniors and not one wanted to be on strike and all said they would go back in an emergency.

I am still of the mind that pressure has to be applied to this fucking useless government though and even the threat of a General Strike would see them change course.

 

[Rascal]

Do you think that somebody who earns a minimum of £31k PA should be struggling Rascal? Is that insufficient to live on or does that person need to learn how to budget or live within their means?

You are caught up with this monetary value.

Do you think everyone should only be paid what they need to live on?

 

[Rascal]

Thanks for the history lesson but I was in my late teens/early 20s during that period and I was working at Dunlops near town during the three day week. At that time my politics were very similar to yours now but like many people as I increasingly saw that Labour offered nothing to me I went further to the Right and started to vote Conservative (including the Thatcher period) & I have done so ever since.

You'll never vote for the Conservatives and I'll never vote Labour again.

I will never vote for conservatives and I will never vote Labour under Starmer.

This is not about politics, it is about fairness.

You are happy in a world where inequality is on the rise, i am unhappy with inequality. Thats the crux.

 

[Vic]

I will never vote for conservatives and I will never vote Labour under Starmer.

This is not about politics, it is about fairness.

You are happy in a world where inequality is on the rise, i am unhappy with inequality. Thats the crux.

Why would you think Starmer is for more inequality?

The best is the enemy of the good.

 

[Rascal]

Why would you think Starmer is for more inequality?

The best is the enemy of the good.

You know my thoughts on Starmer. Nice man, not good enough to be LOTO or PM

 

[remember arthur mann]

You know my thoughts on Starmer. Nice man, not good enough to be LOTO or PM

WTFs bingo got to do with it ?

 

[Paulpowersleftfoot]

If the Trade Unions called a General Strike in Solidarity with the Unions representing the Nurses over their derisory offer would you

Is the derisory offer nothing to do with monetary value then comrade?

 

[metalblue]

The NHS would not strike in terms of all out, weld the gates shut.

During the Junior Doctors strike, essential services were covered and if needed everyone of them on the picket line would have ran back into the hospital. I know, i was on the picket line at SRFT with the Dermatology Juniors and not one wanted to be on strike and all said they would go back in an emergency.

I am still of the mind that pressure has to be applied to this fucking useless government though and even the threat of a General Strike would see them change course.

I might be wrong here but I think the NMC only “approves” of strike action taken by nurses who aren’t on shift that day. Which makes it more of a protest than a strike....still would make uncomfortable images for any government.

 

[FantasyIreland]

No,given the timing especially......it would be wreckless and irresponsible.

It would also cause far more harm than good in respect of public sympathy.

 

[Bluemanc100]

You are caught up with this monetary value.

Do you think everyone should only be paid what they need to live on?

So £31k is only enough to live on now....

There are lots of people who are worse off than the nurses and I agree they’ve had a tough 12 months but they’ve been employed throughout the pandemic, had more overtime than they can handle (I imagine) and earned a reasonable wage for their efforts...

It’s black and white. Of course they could be paid more but that would have to be justified in an environment where other public sector workers (some who have also been exposed on a daily basis to Covid) are getting nothing

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

I will never vote for conservatives and I will never vote Labour under Starmer.

This is not about politics, it is about fairness.

You are happy in a world where inequality is on the rise, i am unhappy with inequality. Thats the crux.

That's an interesting stance. Taking a maximalist decision on principle not to vote Labour whilst Starmer is leader probably means you never vote for them again. If you are waiting until the next Corbyn is installed then you'll be hugely disappointed when the next Starmer is voted in to replace him.

Corbyn was voted leader due to the crazy decision to allow anyone who paid a few quid to vote in that leadership election even though they had no party membership previously. That allowed entryism from all sorts of extreme Left/Marxist organisations plus even Conservatives voting Corbyn for a laugh. The Corbyn Experiment failed miserably and it won't be allowed to be repeated. The next leader will be a version of Starmer in terms of policy and so will the one after etc. A Labour leader reflecting your views are as likely as Labour (in its current format) winning a general election again.

 

[blue for life]

Which is fine, I have a certain admiration for those that feel they can vote for what they believe in.
For me no party represents my ideal view of everything. So I try and vote for what I think is nearest to whats best for my family and what is best for those less fortunate than myself. That for me is doing my best to replace years and years of Tory government.The only way I see that happening is a centre left party that is electAble.
Until we get that then prepare for a stream of tory wins and tory governments.
That for me is the worst possible outcome, that will do the most damage to those most in need of a better more caring government.
I’m 58 for all my adult life, the Blair years apart, I’ve lived under conservative government. I’d like different for my children,that meansca Labour party that can win elections.

Winning elections is no good if you aren’t going to change the status quo. Look at Blair. In the end I thought what’s the point. I got great joy out of the first Tory defeat in 1997 but that was it. Sorry but I have seen through all that now.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

The NHS would not strike in terms of all out, weld the gates shut.

During the Junior Doctors strike, essential services were covered and if needed everyone of them on the picket line would have ran back into the hospital. I know, i was on the picket line at SRFT with the Dermatology Juniors and not one wanted to be on strike and all said they would go back in an emergency.

I am still of the mind that pressure has to be applied to this fucking useless government though and even the threat of a General Strike would see them change course.

I get the case for / power of a general strike, but do you think post Thatcherism the effect would be the same as before? Up to the 1970's such a strike would fuck over rich people and the Govt. I think general strike now would fuck over the general public a lot more, albeit that would in turn pressure the Govt.

 

[blueparrot]

Winning elections is no good if you aren’t going to change the status quo. Look at Blair. In the end I thought what’s the point. I got great joy out of the first Tory defeat in 1997 but that was it. Sorry but U have seen through all that now.

Then you weren’t in a position in 97 when you were struggling with a new family and benefited from the child tax credits., or needed the improvements he made to the NHS , or nursery education.
I was lucky I had the help of a Labour government when I was most in need.
Help thats been eroded by successive Conservative governments, so isn’t there for those in need now and in the coming years.
Why? Because Labour members tried to create their Labour party and ignored that a political party that becomes unelectable is pointless.
Depends what you think politics is for, to make yourself feel better about your personal vote in the hope you get everything you want, when you never ever will, despite the outcome, or get elected a government that helps people the most.
I’ve always voted for a government that can help the most people, which might not be perfect but at least is better than what we have now. Because as much as you might not like it the choice is either a conservative government or a centre left government. They are the only choices UK voters will make. Until Labour accept that, and they may be realising that,again, then its a Tory government.
Ask NHS staff would they prefer a decent rise and investment, more recruitment, from a soft left Labour party maybe in coalition ,or this Johnson led Tory government because some people decided the they wanted a left wing Labour party led by Corbyn, in an act of selfish self indulgence.

 

[Blue Maverick]

So £31k is only enough to live on now....

There are lots of people who are worse off than the nurses and I agree they’ve had a tough 12 months but they’ve been employed throughout the pandemic, had more overtime than they can handle (I imagine) and earned a reasonable wage for their efforts...

It’s black and white. Of course they could be paid more but that would have to be justified in an environment where other public sector workers (some who have also been exposed on a daily basis to Covid) are getting nothing

This is not the fault of the nurses though is it? If people are earning less it’s because their employers are exploiting them, a decent living minimum wage should be mandatory, but no people want to maximise profits and how do you do this, you make your wage bill as small as possible. You only have to look at zero contracts etc to see how people are exploited, Amazon pay their employees minimum wage yet their owner is the richest man in the world who could solve a third worlds country debt in a single transaction. We should be racing to the bottom, we should be trying to bring people up. Yes we have a lot of wasters in this country who will do nothing and ride the system, but you treat your employees right, pay them right, happy people, happy workplace, productivity goes up, tax man gets his cut, country benefits.

 

[Bluemanc100]

This is not the fault of the nurses though is it? If people are earning less it’s because their employers are exploiting them, a decent living minimum wage should be mandatory, but no people want to maximise profits and how do you do this, you make your wage bill as small as possible. You only have to look at zero contracts etc to see how people are exploited, Amazon pay their employees minimum wage yet their owner is the richest man in the world who could solve a third worlds country debt in a single transaction. We should be racing to the bottom, we should be trying to bring people up. Yes we have a lot of wasters in this country who will do nothing and ride the system, but you treat your employees right, pay them right, happy people, happy workplace, productivity goes up, tax man gets his cut, country benefits.

A number of errors eg the richest man in the world comment but I get your point.. Some also like zero hours contracts because of the flexibility they give but I get they give power to the employer.

Nurses are public sector employees and (last time I looked) the NHS in non-profit so there is no suggestion that they are being “exploited” unless you believe that they are being given a rise (when all others in the sector are not) for the publicity... the move has backfired in terms of the feedback if this forum is typical of our society.

What monetary value would you class as a “decent living wage” if a minimum of £31k isn’t? Or is it not about the money as Rascal has intimated, is it purely about conditions and expectations?

 

[Blue Maverick]

A number of errors eg the richest man in the world comment but I get your point.. Some also like zero hours contracts because of the flexibility they give but I get they give power to the employer.

Nurses are public sector employees and (last time I looked) the NHS in non-profit so there is no suggestion that they are being “exploited” unless you believe that they are being given a rise (when all others in the sector are not) for the publicity... the move has backfired in terms of the feedback if this forum is typical of our society.

What monetary value would you class as a “decent living wage” if a minimum of £31k isn’t? Or is it not about the money as Rascal has intimated, is it purely about conditions and expectations?

I didn’t mean nhs staff been exploited i meant Amazon workers. I’m on about £31k with one kid if my wife didn’t work we would be living from month to month, with pension contributions etc my take home is £1800 factor in mortgage bills food etc and I don’t think I would have £100 left for nice things. The cost of living and house prices for youngsters is ridiculous and that doesn’t include going on the piss. Honestly a family should be on minimum of £40k to enjoy themselves otherwise it’s just surviving and what’s the point of that. We all start out low but our expectations are it gets better, I’ve stated before through austerity over those 10 years I lost £5k in real terms I was in £50 less a month than 10 years prior but nothing else went down in the real world.
This is not a feel sorry for me answer this is the reality at why people feel pushed off, clap today slag me off tomorrow. Those in the private sector should maybe going to their bosses if they’ve worked through the pandemic and ask for a rise instead of slagging off public sector.

 

[Bluemanc100]

I didn’t mean nhs staff been exploited i meant Amazon workers. I’m on about £31k with one kid if my didn’t work we would be living from month to month, with pension contributions etc my take home is £1800 factor in mortgage bills food etc and I don’t think I would have £100 left for nice things. The cost of living and house prices for youngsters is ridiculous and that doesn’t include going on the piss. Honestly a family should be on minimum of £40k to enjoy themselves otherwise it’s just surviving and what’s the point of that. We all start out low but our expectations are it gets better, I’ve stated before through austerity over those 10 years I lost £5k in real terms I was in £50 less a month than 10 years prior but nothing else went down in the real world.
This is not a feel sorry for me answer this is the reality at why people feel pushed off, clap today slag me off tomorrow. Those in the private sector should maybe going to their bosses if they’ve worked through the pandemic and ask for a rise instead of slagging off public sector.

Are the private sector slagging off the public sector? All I've seen (admittedly I don't study every article) are people who mention that the NHS are getting this 1% when other public sector workers are not.

You are probably right, that a family needs to be not should be on £40k to live comfortably and there are jobs out there which will allow that but probably not at entry level in the NHS. I say this from a position of relative luxury as I currently choose not to work but if I was working in a job that didn't pay and it was somehow feasible, I'd try to get myself the skills to move to a position where my aspirations / basic needs could be met.

I left home to join the Royal Air Force at 19 with a couple of GCEs and the experience of two YTS schemes where the employer chose not to take me on (it was cheaper to get another YTS person than hire me), one at Liptons Supermarket and one at an independent Jaguar Specialist.

Almost 40 years on I chose to stop working to try and enjoy life at 57 and the moral of my story is that if I can do that with my qualifications then anybody can. You get nothing given to you in this life... you have to go out and take it.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Are the private sector slagging off the public sector? All I've seen (admittedly I don't study every article) are people who mention that the NHS are getting this 1% when other public sector workers are not.

You are probably right, that a family needs to be not should be on £40k to live comfortably and there are jobs out there which will allow that but probably not at entry level in the NHS. I say this from a position of relative luxury as I currently choose not to work but if I was working in a job that didn't pay and it was somehow feasible, I'd try to get myself the skills to move to a position where my aspirations / basic needs could be met.

I left home to join the Royal Air Force at 19 with a couple of GCEs and the experience of two YTS schemes where the employer chose not to take me on (it was cheaper to get another YTS person than hire me), one at Liptons Supermarket and one at an independent Jaguar Specialist.

Almost 40 years on I chose to stop working to try and enjoy life at 57 and the moral of my story is that if I can do that with my qualifications then anybody can. You get nothing given to you in this life... you have to go out and take it.

Basically same as you RAF at 18 years old 5 GCSEs 1 shit A level retiring this year at 52 because I saved like hell and now hope to reap the benefits.

 

[Bluemanc100]

Basically same as you RAF at 18 years old 5 GCSEs 1 shit A level retiring this year at 52 because I saved like hell and now hope to reap the benefits.

Great isn't it...... I'm on the verge of accepting a new role after being contacted and asked to come out of retirement... It's all about the package they offer whether I sign on the dotted line but it could be an absolute no brainer financially... The best part is it's great to be wanted and it's even better to be able to work because I want to and not because I have to.... Had it not been for Covid making my first 11 months of retirement a little boring then I doubt I'd even entertain a role of any kind...