Would you back a General strike?

[Blue Maverick]

Great isn't it...... I'm on the verge of accepting a new role after being contacted and asked to come out of retirement... It's all about the package they offer whether I sign on the dotted line but it could be an absolute no brainer financially... The best part is it's great to be wanted and it's even better to be able to work because I want to and not because I have to.... Had it not been for Covid making my first 11 months of retirement a little boring then I doubt I'd even entertain a role of any kind...

Same with me Covid has shown me I can’t sit around forever, maybe just thevfirst 6-12 months ;)

 

[Bluemanc100]

Same with me Covid has shown me I can’t sit around forever, maybe just thevfirst 6-12 months ;)

Sorry if this derails the thread a little but I must say I've coped better with the first 11 months than I ever thought I would.. Everybody expected me to be like a caged tiger.... I could instantly regret going back to work but at the end of the day I can always stop again... That's me done talking about myself.... I'll leave the thread to get back on topic

Ciao

 

[Rascal]

So £31k is only enough to live on now....

There are lots of people who are worse off than the nurses and I agree they’ve had a tough 12 months but they’ve been employed throughout the pandemic, had more overtime than they can handle (I imagine) and earned a reasonable wage for their efforts...

It’s black and white. Of course they could be paid more but that would have to be justified in an environment where other public sector workers (some who have also been exposed on a daily basis to Covid) are getting nothing

Should everyone only be paid what they need to live on?

 

[leeneel]

I will carry on going to work like I have had to do all my adult life and all through the pandemic.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Well, I wouldn't like to bet my knackers on the possibility of a general strike,
as hundreds of thousands now have nobody to strike against, and most of the rest have been on enforced leave for 12 months, earning a percentage of what they used to.
Asking them to support an service that has had no redundancies, has a guaranteed future, gets paid during illness, a guaranteed pension and an average wage over £30 grand may be a bit difficult to sell.
But best of luck.

 

[metalblue]

Should everyone only be paid what they need to live on?

I suspect I know where you’re going with this....over a minimum living wage aren’t the rest already gets paid what they need to live on?

We’re like gases, expanding our expenditure to our income.

Money ain’t worth having if you aren’t going to enjoy it.... Although we all know a few folk tighter than a ducks arse, with short arms and deep pockets who are always pleading poverty when it’s their round.

 

[Rascal]

I suspect I know where you’re going with this....over a minimum living wage aren’t the rest already gets paid what they need to live on?

We’re like gases, expanding our expenditure to our income.

Money ain’t worth having if you aren’t going to enjoy it.... Although we all know a few folk tighter than a ducks arse, with short arms and deep pockets who are always pleading poverty when it’s their round.

Its an interesting notion, only paying somebody what they need to live on.

The Capitalist class would love it, think of the increased profits. Then though its possible I would agree with the notion, in a Communist society where goods were plentiful and distributed according to need, there would be no need to pay more than what people need to live on and the extra could be used for societal rather than individual benefit.

Quite by accident I think @Bluemanc100 has highlighted a notion that is well worthy of discussion.

 

[Bluemanc100]

Its an interesting notion, only paying somebody what they need to live on.

The Capitalist class would love it, think of the increased profits. Then though its possible I would agree with the notion, in a Communist society where goods were plentiful and distributed according to need, there would be no need to pay more than what people need to live on and the extra could be used for societal rather than individual benefit.

Quite by accident I think @Bluemanc100 has highlighted a notion that is well worthy of discussion.

Most of my good ideas are courtesy of mental accidents ;-)

 

[inbetween]

The irony of the left-wingers on here calling for strikes in solidarity with public sector workers whilst they hold political views that would result in damage to any hope of pay rises for private sector workers.

Maybe what we really need is a general strike against the politically narrow? Thankfully socialists can never hide from the slogan "we're all in it together".

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

The irony of the left-wingers on here calling for strikes in solidarity with public sector workers whilst they hold political views that would result in damage to any hope of pay rises for private sector workers.

Maybe what we really need is a general strike against the politically narrow? Thankfully socialists can never hide from the slogan "we're all in it together".

Surely those "socialists" would claim that they want rights for private workers that they themselves have or all workers previously had but those have since been removed?

Most developed countries recognise the right to solidarity action/general strikes, and also ban or restrict use of strike breaking labour.

Apart from the very small independent businesses, or casual and seasonal freelance why shouldn't workers have sickness pay? Surely the state could set up an independent body that takes on the administration of an insurance scheme, and workers and employers could then pay into this, with maybe a small VAT levy to top it up.

 

[Rascal]

The irony of the left-wingers on here calling for strikes in solidarity with public sector workers whilst they hold political views that would result in damage to any hope of pay rises for private sector workers.

Maybe what we really need is a general strike against the politically narrow? Thankfully socialists can never hide from the slogan "we're all in it together".

Some left wingers hold views that there would be only a very limited amount of private sector workers.

So very little damage if any would be done.

 

[inbetween]

Surely those "socialists" would claim that they want rights for private workers that they themselves have or all workers previously had but those have since been removed?

Most developed countries recognise the right to solidarity action/general strikes, and also ban or restrict use of strike breaking labour.

Apart from the very small independent businesses, or casual and seasonal freelance why shouldn't workers have sickness pay? Surely the state could set up an independent body that takes on the administration of an insurance scheme, and workers and employers could then pay into this, with maybe a small VAT levy to top it up.

Over a million people have lost their jobs in the private sector since the pandemic started, none of them will be getting a 1% pay rise that's for sure and they don't have the luxury of public sector borrowing to fund it.

So when is the solidarity march for those people?

I'm not against pay rises because of course doctors etc do vital work. But, we are in a national crisis and that has to be recognised as much as what people deserve.

 

[inbetween]

Some left wingers hold views that there would be only a very limited amount of private sector workers.

So very little damage if any would be done.

But that isn't the reality. The reality of say a Corbyn government today would be enormous debt to the eyeballs alongside a taxation burden on the private sector that would result in the losses of millions of jobs for the forseeable future.

 

[Rascal]

But that isn't the reality. The reality of say a Corbyn government today would be enormous debt to the eyeballs alongside a taxation burden on the private sector that would result in the losses of millions of jobs for the forseeable future.

Its only not reality because people are in thrall to Capitalism. I think Capitalism is in crisis and a new system could take its place. We don't have to live in a Capitalist system, we are just conditioned to think we have to live in a capitalist system. Who does the conditioning, the Capitalists.

As Howard Jones sang

I've been waiting for so long
To come here now and sing this song
Don't be fooled by what you see
Don't be fooled by what you hear

Don't crack up
Bend your brain
See both sides
Throw off your mental chains

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Over a million people have lost their jobs in the private sector since the pandemic started, none of them will be getting a 1% pay rise that's for sure and they don't have the luxury of public sector borrowing to fund it.

So when is the solidarity march for those people?

I'm not against pay rises because of course doctors etc do vital work. But, we are in a national crisis and that has to be recognised as much as what people deserve.

So we must reform the system. A capitalist system not able to withstand the shocks of a pandemic which it has exacerbated by it's reliance on globalisation, long supply chains and beating down labour by rentier outsourcing is not one able to endure into the 22nd century.

 

[inbetween]

So we must reform the system. A capitalist system not able to withstand the shocks of a pandemic which it has exacerbated by it's reliance on globalisation, long supply chains and beating down labour by rentier outsourcing is not one able to endure into the 22nd century.

What system will withstand an economic shock in a situation where many transactions have essentially ended?

How would you reform an industry like the airline industry for example to survive in a pandemic when right now planes aren't flying because they would carry zero passengers?

What socialism actually demands is unlimited resources that we don't have and that's the problem. If this isn't the case then you have to make a decision like in this example which is do you forgo the 1% pay rise to keep others in work or do you sack all of the airline staff to pay for it?

In solidarity I'd accept a 1% payrise or miss it out altogether on the basis of so many people losing their jobs in testing times and that's the current reality... Or are we all not in this together after all?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

What system will withstand an economic shock in a situation where many transactions have essentially ended?

How would you reform an industry like the airline industry for example to survive in a pandemic when right now planes aren't flying because they would carry zero passengers?

What socialism actually demands is unlimited resources that we don't have and that's the problem. If this isn't the case then you have to make a decision like in this example which is do you forgo the 1% pay rise to keep others in work or do you sack all of the airline staff to pay for it?

In solidarity I'd accept a 1% payrise or miss it out altogether on the basis of so many people losing their jobs in testing times and that's the current reality... Or are we all not in this together after all?

No capitalism demands that, because it requires continuous growth to sustain itself. All economic systems exploit the same original source- the Earth and natural world. This exploitation of the Earth was recognised by Adam Smith.

There are less severe forms of capitalism as recognised by the World Economic Forum when they advocated for business social responsibility (focus on shareholder value) to be replaced with stakeholder value i.e. a greater appreciation of employees and the community at large.

Use the airlines for distribution of vaccines and PPE. It is also a good time to advocate for investment into technology less harmful to the environment. Reform doesn't mean that we can instantly save non essential industries with a drop in demand.

A 1% pay rise is a real terms cut.

 

[inbetween]

No capitalism demands that, because it requires continuous growth to sustain itself. All economic systems exploit the same original source- the Earth and natural world. This exploitation of the Earth was recognised by Adam Smith.

There are less severe forms of capitalism as recognised by the World Economic Forum when they advocated for business social responsibility (focus on shareholder value) to be replaced with stakeholder value i.e. a greater appreciation of employees and the community at large.

Use the airlines for distribution of vaccines and PPE. It is also a good time to advocate for investment into technology less harmful to the environment. Reform doesn't mean that we can instantly save non essential industries with a drop in demand.

A 1% pay rise is a real terms cut.

I'd take a paycut over losing my job any day of the week and many people currently don't have the luxury of a choice. This is called reality, it's the reality that is currently facing both the world and the country.

That reality isn't a product of capitalism, it's a product of COVID-19 and the unique circumstances that are damaging the country on a daily basis. It's why alongside the many who have lost their jobs there are many people sat at home not working being paid their wages by the state because that's the only choice left.

How will striking to improve a doctors salary from £80k per year to over £81k a year help these people or this situation?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I'd take a paycut over losing my job any day of the week and many people currently don't have the luxury of a choice. This is called reality, it's the reality that is currently facing both the world and the country.

That reality isn't a product of capitalism, it's a product of COVID-19 and the unique circumstances that are damaging the country on a daily basis. It's why alongside the many who have lost their jobs there are many people sat at home not working being paid their wages by the state because that's the only choice left.

How will improving a doctors salary from £80k per year to over £81k a year help these people or this situation?

Yes most people would take a paycut to save their jobs. But if we all collectively do that we get trapped in a race to the bottom.

Other countries less tied up in neoliberal economics have coped better, not deferring to food banks to feed people.

Our current form of capitalism has made accommodation too expensive and it's one of the main reasons why people don't see the full benefits of a decent salary.

 

[law74]

If the Trade Unions called a General Strike in Solidarity with the Unions representing the Nurses over their derisory offer would you

A/ Strike yourself

B/ Support the Strike

C/ Oppose the Strike

D/ Not give two fucks, its Friday and I am on the piss.


The French General Strike of 1968 almost brought down the Government but did result in huge social change.

Yes.
And should have happened years ago.