Would you like Religion gone from the world ?

[tonea2003]

Here's my, openly Christian perspective.

That is not the gospel. It's not about condemnation, it's all about grace. Religion is what is wrong with Christianity. So many see Christians like the Pharisees who were around in Jesus' time; people who hover around sinners pointing out what they're doing wrong. This "holier that thou"/hating attitude is still exhibited by a large number, which breaks my heart because it does resonate with Jesus' character or purpose. And the arrogance that comes with it is sickening; almost as if some are saying, "look at them, they'll get their just desserts on judgement day".

Guys, the Bible tells me that I shouldn't believe in Universalism (everybody will be saved), but I really, really hope that there's a mystery yet to be discovered and I'm wrong about that.

As regards bringing up children, if interpreted correctly then Christianity is an excellent foundation for family life.

"it's all about Grace"

Why do we need "grace"? because we're so sinful, deprived and worthless that we can't even redeem ourselves. There's nothing we could do to become worthy because it's in our nature to be worthless.

This is the fundamental message of the Bible.

It's abusive to throw this baggage on young minds.

Your interpretation of grace depends on your definition of sin. For a start, if God were coming from the perspective that we are worthless, then there's no motivation for salvation and grace in the first place. My understanding of grace is that when we sin, it separates us from God; creates a metaphorical chasm if you will. Sin is always an intentional choice. Grace simply offers us renewed access to God, it takes away the separation. It's not about being worthless, it's recognising that only a perfect person deserves to inherit eternal life. I know that I cannot achieve that, and so I am humbled by God's grace that I have free access to him thanks entirely to someone else (Jesus) forever bridging that chasm. And I believe that he did that because he loves me, unconditionally.

So my identity isn't found in my shortcomings and worthlessness because I've fallen short of God's unreachable glory, because then I haven't fully accepted/realised his sacrifice on the cross. My identity isn't found in my success either. It's found in the belief that nothing I could ever do could separate me from the love and grace of the God who died for me. I don't deserve it, which is why judging others is incredibly hypocritical. So I judge no one, I fear no one, and I look forward to the moment where I shall see him face to face.

I'm sorry Elanjo, but I don't believe that the above principal is an abusive way to bring up children.
We don't have any kids yet, but when we do, I aim to bring them up by living this out as their father.

what astounds me time and time again(forget your particular arguement for the moment) is that you talk like this deity is real and yet noone can provide anything resembling evidence for that to be the case.

 

[i kne albert davy]

OH GOD yes please!!!!!!!!

I'll Remeber this the next time i'm at the front of the Queue for the beer at Bolton and your thirsty Judas.

If you are buying beer then there Must be a God.

Whoa hang on nobody mentioned me buying it just pass the money forward old chap.

 

[SWP's back]

Here's my, openly Christian perspective.

That is not the gospel. It's not about condemnation, it's all about grace. Religion is what is wrong with Christianity. So many see Christians like the Pharisees who were around in Jesus' time; people who hover around sinners pointing out what they're doing wrong. This "holier that thou"/hating attitude is still exhibited by a large number, which breaks my heart because it does resonate with Jesus' character or purpose. And the arrogance that comes with it is sickening; almost as if some are saying, "look at them, they'll get their just desserts on judgement day".

Guys, the Bible tells me that I shouldn't believe in Universalism (everybody will be saved), but I really, really hope that there's a mystery yet to be discovered and I'm wrong about that.

As regards bringing up children, if interpreted correctly then Christianity is an excellent foundation for family life.

"it's all about Grace"

Why do we need "grace"? because we're so sinful, deprived and worthless that we can't even redeem ourselves. There's nothing we could do to become worthy because it's in our nature to be worthless.

This is the fundamental message of the Bible.

It's abusive to throw this baggage on young minds.

Your interpretation of grace depends on your definition of sin. For a start, if God were coming from the perspective that we are worthless, then there's no motivation for salvation and grace in the first place. My understanding of grace is that when we sin, it separates us from God; creates a metaphorical chasm if you will. Sin is always an intentional choice. Grace simply offers us renewed access to God, it takes away the separation. It's not about being worthless, it's recognising that only a perfect person deserves to inherit eternal life. I know that I cannot achieve that, and so I am humbled by God's grace that I have free access to him thanks entirely to someone else (Jesus) forever bridging that chasm. And I believe that he did that because he loves me, unconditionally.

So my identity isn't found in my shortcomings and worthlessness because I've fallen short of God's unreachable glory, because then I haven't fully accepted/realised his sacrifice on the cross. My identity isn't found in my success either. It's found in the belief that nothing I could ever do could separate me from the love and grace of the God who died for me. I don't deserve it, which is why judging others is incredibly hypocritical. So I judge no one, I fear no one, and I look forward to the moment where I shall see him face to face.

I'm sorry Elanjo, but I don't believe that the above principal is an abusive way to bring up children.
We don't have any kids yet, but when we do, I aim to bring them up by living this out as their father.

poor kids

 

[ElanJo]

Here's my, openly Christian perspective.

That is not the gospel. It's not about condemnation, it's all about grace. Religion is what is wrong with Christianity. So many see Christians like the Pharisees who were around in Jesus' time; people who hover around sinners pointing out what they're doing wrong. This "holier that thou"/hating attitude is still exhibited by a large number, which breaks my heart because it does resonate with Jesus' character or purpose. And the arrogance that comes with it is sickening; almost as if some are saying, "look at them, they'll get their just desserts on judgement day".

Guys, the Bible tells me that I shouldn't believe in Universalism (everybody will be saved), but I really, really hope that there's a mystery yet to be discovered and I'm wrong about that.

As regards bringing up children, if interpreted correctly then Christianity is an excellent foundation for family life.

"it's all about Grace"

Why do we need "grace"? because we're so sinful, deprived and worthless that we can't even redeem ourselves. There's nothing we could do to become worthy because it's in our nature to be worthless.

This is the fundamental message of the Bible.

It's abusive to throw this baggage on young minds.

Your interpretation of grace depends on your definition of sin. For a start, if God were coming from the perspective that we are worthless, then there's no motivation for salvation and grace in the first place. My understanding of grace is that when we sin, it separates us from God; creates a metaphorical chasm if you will. Sin is always an intentional choice. Grace simply offers us renewed access to God, it takes away the separation. It's not about being worthless, it's recognising that only a perfect person deserves to inherit eternal life. I know that I cannot achieve that, and so I am humbled by God's grace that I have free access to him thanks entirely to someone else (Jesus) forever bridging that chasm. And I believe that he did that because he loves me, unconditionally.

So my identity isn't found in my shortcomings and worthlessness because I've fallen short of God's unreachable glory, because then I haven't fully accepted/realised his sacrifice on the cross. My identity isn't found in my success either. It's found in the belief that nothing I could ever do could separate me from the love and grace of the God who died for me. I don't deserve it, which is why judging others is incredibly hypocritical. So I judge no one, I fear no one, and I look forward to the moment where I shall see him face to face.

I'm sorry Elanjo, but I don't believe that the above principal is an abusive way to bring up children.
We don't have any kids yet, but when we do, I aim to bring them up by living this out as their father.

Did anyone else's eyes glaze over when reading this?

It makes no sense.<br /><br />-- Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:09 pm --<br /><br />

Why is "g" a "g" and not an "a"? I don't see where you are going with 2+2 =4?

Do you have any data that says x% of Americans hate gays before and now? If you want to use an empirical argument you then need to show me how many of x were religious and how many of the rest were not.

I can watch specific news channels and tv shows and generalize, incorrectly, about the behavior of the people. Gays were hated but was it by a majority or just the old generations? Was this hatred solely based on religion? Show me the empirical data.

You don't choose to believe that 2+2=4. It's an extreme example, like there being a sun n the sky, of something self evident. The point is that it makes no sense to say that belief is a matter of choice. You do not choose to believe anything. It's nonsensical to say that you chose to believe.

There's data out there that shows that religiosity is the most important factor when it comes to homophobia, and that people become less homophobic the less religious they are/become. Baylor University looked into it quote recently, if memory serves. There are others.
Besides, I only need 1 example to prove your statement incorrect. Do I really need to find it for you tho?

The bottom line is that it's stupid to claim that religion doesn't cause immoral behaviour. It's commanded in that reprehensible book of yours...

I have never claimed it doesn't.

So when does it? You claimed that "extremists" only kill people "in the name of" religion. Where's the cut off point?

 

[pominoz]

I would like to see more of this "religion",

<a class="postlink" href="http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8272651/pastafarian-wins-right-wear-colander-in-licence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/827265 ... in-licence</a>

than chestervegasblues type.

 

[BlueHammer85]

I would like to see more of this "religion",

<a class="postlink" href="http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8272651/pastafarian-wins-right-wear-colander-in-licence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/827265 ... in-licence</a>

than chestervegasblues type.

brilliant

 

[BimboBob]

I would like to see more of this "religion",

<a class="postlink" href="http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8272651/pastafarian-wins-right-wear-colander-in-licence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/827265 ... in-licence</a>

than chestervegasblues type.

brilliant

Beer volcano? Stripper factory? The man is a complete genius. Where do i sign up?

 

[pominoz]

I would like to see more of this "religion",

<a class="postlink" href="http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8272651/pastafarian-wins-right-wear-colander-in-licence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/827265 ... in-licence</a>

than chestervegasblues type.

brilliant

Beer volcano? Stripper factory? The man is a complete genius. Where do i sign up?

Here..

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.venganza.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.venganza.org/</a>

 

[BulgarianPride]

"it's all about Grace"

Why do we need "grace"? because we're so sinful, deprived and worthless that we can't even redeem ourselves. There's nothing we could do to become worthy because it's in our nature to be worthless.

This is the fundamental message of the Bible.

It's abusive to throw this baggage on young minds.

Your interpretation of grace depends on your definition of sin. For a start, if God were coming from the perspective that we are worthless, then there's no motivation for salvation and grace in the first place. My understanding of grace is that when we sin, it separates us from God; creates a metaphorical chasm if you will. Sin is always an intentional choice. Grace simply offers us renewed access to God, it takes away the separation. It's not about being worthless, it's recognising that only a perfect person deserves to inherit eternal life. I know that I cannot achieve that, and so I am humbled by God's grace that I have free access to him thanks entirely to someone else (Jesus) forever bridging that chasm. And I believe that he did that because he loves me, unconditionally.

So my identity isn't found in my shortcomings and worthlessness because I've fallen short of God's unreachable glory, because then I haven't fully accepted/realised his sacrifice on the cross. My identity isn't found in my success either. It's found in the belief that nothing I could ever do could separate me from the love and grace of the God who died for me. I don't deserve it, which is why judging others is incredibly hypocritical. So I judge no one, I fear no one, and I look forward to the moment where I shall see him face to face.

I'm sorry Elanjo, but I don't believe that the above principal is an abusive way to bring up children.
We don't have any kids yet, but when we do, I aim to bring them up by living this out as their father.

Did anyone else's eyes glaze over when reading this?

It makes no sense.

-- Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:09 pm --

You don't choose to believe that 2+2=4. It's an extreme example, like there being a sun n the sky, of something self evident. The point is that it makes no sense to say that belief is a matter of choice. You do not choose to believe anything. It's nonsensical to say that you chose to believe.

There's data out there that shows that religiosity is the most important factor when it comes to homophobia, and that people become less homophobic the less religious they are/become. Baylor University looked into it quote recently, if memory serves. There are others.
Besides, I only need 1 example to prove your statement incorrect. Do I really need to find it for you tho?

The bottom line is that it's stupid to claim that religion doesn't cause immoral behaviour. It's commanded in that reprehensible book of yours...

I have never claimed it doesn't.

So when does it? You claimed that "extremists" only kill people "in the name of" religion. Where's the cut off point?

Can you tell me where I've claimed that?

If it was not religion, extremists would kill in the name of something else.

 

[another generation]

Every time I scroll down past this topic, I read it as 'Would you like a Belgian gone from the world?'