Writing is on the wall

[BobKowalski]

For the record, I'm firmly Mancini in.

However, it's a myth that stability comes from having 1 guy in charge forever.

The correct way is to have the structure in place that remains the same. Directors of football are good, it's just the english don't like them. But they make far more sense. It's 1 strategy, 1 policy.

It certainly beats the english, harry redknapp/sam allardyce approach whereby they want to sign their old mates again. No coincidence that Redknapp didn't like not having sole control of transfers at Spurs.

Think you have got your wires crossed. Stability does come from having one person in charge long term. Success however maybe different. But I do think for the top sides stability is a better framework for success than regular changes. There are arguments for both sides. Whiskey nose is a prime example of sticking with your manager. Wenger the opposite. He had his day and will struggle to regain. Chelsea have had a level of success despite change but ask yourself if abramovich didn't fall out with mourinho would they have won more than they have since he left?

No I haven't got my wires crossed.

If you have the same structure in place it is better because it means when you change the manager there is no transition period.

By having a stable structure who decide on transfer policy etc... with the consultation of the manager of the moment, it means that stays constant.

So yes, stability. In terms of management structure, coaching setup and the financial stability of the club (with no great turnover of staff with each managerial change)

Agreed.

 

[OB1]

But we didn't have the structure that Coulson is referring to; we didn't have a coherent long-term strategy backed by serious investment; we didn't have a Director of Football...

Managerial (as in head coach) stability and a stable club are not necessarily the same thing. Also, changing the manager after three years for a better model does not imply a lack of stability, it should imply progress: stability should never become a barrier to progress. Progress means something should be changing and that might be the manager.

Changing the manager at the drop of a hat is not to be recommended and I do not believe our club will do that but they will make a change if they think it is the best way forward.

I appreciate that but we arent talking about a change every 3 years. We were talking Chelsea like changes year in year out depending on success. You can't say Chelsea portray a stable club although behind the scenes they could have a rock solid set up away from the manager.

Thing is once the manager is changes then usually the assistant manager is, then the coach, then the goalkeeping coach, then they bring their own players in, then the scouts, then how they play the reserve games etc etc. So to me, regardless of the set up in the directors box, a stable club has a long term manager at the helm.

Sorry but who is talking, or should I say suggesting, we change our manager like Chelsea do? I don't see many people who expect City to behave like that or who want City to behave like that. However, some people hold the view that Bobby may have served his purpose in the grand scheme of the City project. Other people considered the fact that Guardiola was on the market and the distinct possibility that Mourinho could soon be on the market as reasons to consider whether or not City should look to replace Bobby with one of them because they think that those guys represent the sort of upgrade opportunity that should not be passed over lightly. All very different from the approach at Chelsea, IMO.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry but who is talking, or should I say suggesting, we change our manager like Chelsea do? I don't see many people who expect City to behave like that or who want City to behave like that. However, some people hold the view that Bobby may have served his purpose in the grand scheme of the City project. Other people considered the fact that Guardiola was on the market and the distinct possibility that Mourinho could soon be on the market as reasons to consider whether or not City should look to replace Bobby with one of them because they think that those guys represent the sort of upgrade opportunity that should not be passed over lightly. All very different from the approach at Chelsea, IMO.

You can file the "we'll turn into Chelsea" comments right next to the "Guardiola proved nothing at Barca" comments. :)

 

[VOOMER]

No Billy, Mancini was and is 100% right on the RVP and De Rossi issues, maybe different targets should have identified, but the level of player was right. He see's the bigger picture better than many if not all. He has played at the top and managed one of the biggest clubs in the world. I would say he fully understands what it takes to build a true force. The proof is in RVP being the main reason the rags are ahead, he was right, knew he was right and if other people couldn't admit they were wrong, then they should be outed!

Our owners gave unprecedented amounts of money to Hughes and then Mancini to build a squad capable of challenging both domestically and in Europe. However it was also made crystal clear by Khaldoun after our expenditure in the summer of 2011 that the squad was ready and fit for purpose. In fact I would hazard a guess that with the exception of our lack of a genuine world class winger, we all agreed at the start of last season our squad was incredible.

What has happened subsequently is that Balotelli, Dzeko, and Nari in particular haven't lived up to their expectations. These things happen in football but manager don't just get to keep buying from the very top shelf because their previous top shelf purchases haven't worked out.

Even without the pressures of FFP, I would feel a little uncomfortable if Mansour took an Abramovich on steroids approach and just paid whatever he needed to to secure the best players in the world every summer.

The most disappointing thing going into last summer was the lack of forethought from Mancini and his staff when it comes to identifying talent. With the best will the world, I could've told you that De Rossi, Hazard, and RVP would've guaranteed us the title. However since the luxury of buying those three players wasn't possible the key was identifying which financial constraints you were working under, then identifying players within those constraints. From the outside looking in it looked very much like Mancini said "I want Hazard, Van Persie, and De Rossi" - the board decided he wasn't going to get them and he subsequently sulked for the rest of the summer rather than identifying better value for money than Javi Garcia and Scott Sinclair.

We aren't aiming to be a flash in the pan club, the myth that our youth set is truly ready to produce first 11 players is just that. We will be having to buy top quality players each year for the next 10. After that if we have some continuity in terms of playing style then we might see a team, or squad dominated by home grown talent. We are still going to have to spend big each season to establish ourselfs, regardless of who is manager, because we are aiming to win the EPL and Champions league, not have big smiley faces because we the FA cup, or league cup, while SKY and all the toadying managers kiss the collective Rag arse. Also Billy, why is acceptable in the EPL for everyone to lick spittle over the swamp janitor? If managers kissed someone's arse as much they all kiss his in Europe, then there own fans would turn on them.

I simply don't agree with the gist of what you've posted there. I think you're in for a bit of a shock if you think we're going to be buying world class players every summer. Those days are over.

Then if we are to maintain challenges for the title and succeed in the champions league, how exactly will we do that with the current squad, when we have several players in their 30's and no one from the youth team pulling up trees to join the squad?
Plus what exactly qualifies Khaldoun, to decide if the squad is fit for purpose? The new 2 have been brought in because Khaldoun has got the brains to realize that its not his area of expertise, so I would dismiss that comment, as one being made on the back of some very poor and self serving advice.

 

[samharris]

It's our destiny this year.

Man United in the cup final. Win that one, lose the league to them.

Mark my words.

Fergies swan song hopefully, he retires and Mourinho goes to the dark side.

I heard Bacon has 4 years left on his contract, he will be going nowhere for a few years yet

Contracts are not worth the paper they are lied upon.

 

[OB1]

Sorry but who is talking, or should I say suggesting, we change our manager like Chelsea do? I don't see many people who expect City to behave like that or who want City to behave like that. However, some people hold the view that Bobby may have served his purpose in the grand scheme of the City project. Other people considered the fact that Guardiola was on the market and the distinct possibility that Mourinho could soon be on the market as reasons to consider whether or not City should look to replace Bobby with one of them because they think that those guys represent the sort of upgrade opportunity that should not be passed over lightly. All very different from the approach at Chelsea, IMO.

You can file the "we'll turn into Chelsea" comments right next to the "Guardiola proved nothing at Barca" comments. :)

They do fly counter to the facts.

 

[Anonymous]

Then if we are to maintain challenges for the title and succeed in the champions league, how exactly will we do that with the current squad, when we have several players in their 30's and no one from the youth team pulling up trees to join the squad?
Plus what exactly qualifies Khaldoun, to decide if the squad is fit for purpose? The new 2 have been brought in because Khaldoun has got the brains to realize that its not his area expertise, so I would dismiss that comment, as one being made on the back of some very poor and self serving advice.

The core of our squad has a very young average age. Who are these several players in their 30's ? We need to replace Lescott/Toure/Barry this summer but two of those three aren't regulars in the first team anymore and in Barry's position we have Garcia, Toure, Milner, Rodwell.

Anyway, even if we do need to replace players I'll say again, it is ridiculous to expect and hope that City will every summer sign players like De Rossi or Van Persie. Again, the last few transfer windows have shown how serious Khaldoun was.

And speaking of Txiki and Ferran - of course they will know the value in a squad needing top quality players and experience, but they have let it be known that the days of City having two international quality players for one position are over. The objective moving forward is having four or five world class players in the squad, supplemented with younger, hungrier, cheaper, players.

As for dismissing comments made by Khaldoun, why on earth would you do that when they are obviously the words of Sheikh Mansour and more importantly, those words have been put into actions, or in this case, inaction, in the transfer market.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

I don't think the owner would simply say no league title, sack the manager, I just don't think it's his style. He seems to be a patient man. I think they will constantly be looking at whether we are progressing though and I think that is more likely to be the deciding factor. If we come second this season but they broadly think we are going in the right direction and feel confident we will win it the following season, I'm sure Mancini would be safe. If they aren't confident that next season will be better then surely he would come under pressure. But even then there would have to be a top class alternative available and that's by no means guaranteed. If it was up to me, on the back of that cl campaign, if we don't win the league, I'd say we've palpably regressed and I'd sack him. Sadly for me though and fortunately for everyone else, I'm not the owner or even a multi-billionaire.

 

[OB1]

Then if we are to maintain challenges for the title and succeed in the champions league, how exactly will we do that with the current squad, when we have several players in their 30's and no one from the youth team pulling up trees to join the squad?
Plus what exactly qualifies Khaldoun, to decide if the squad is fit for purpose? The new 2 have been brought in because Khaldoun has got the brains to realize that its not his area expertise, so I would dismiss that comment, as one being made on the back of some very poor and self serving advice.

The core of our squad has a very young average age. Who are these several players in their 30's ? We need to replace Lescott/Toure/Barry this summer but two of those three aren't regulars in the first team anymore and in Barry's position we have Garcia, Toure, Milner, Rodwell.

Anyway, even if we do need to replace players I'll say again, it is ridiculous to expect and hope that City will every summer sign players like De Rossi or Van Persie. Again, the last few transfer windows have shown how serious Khaldoun was.

And speaking of Txiki and Ferran - of course they will know the value in a squad needing top quality players and experience, but they have let it be known that the days of City having two international quality players for one position are over. The objective moving forward is having four or five world class players in the squad, supplemented with younger, hungrier, cheaper, players.

As for dismissing comments made by Khaldoun, why on earth would you do that when they are obviously the words of Sheikh Mansour and more importantly, those words have been put into actions, or in this case, inaction, in the transfer market.

I think City will still spend big money on a top players if he, for whatever reason, is a must have but that will be the exception rather than the rule. I don't think we will be cheap skates but we will be looking for the best young talent.

 

[coleridge]

Then if we are to maintain challenges for the title and succeed in the champions league, how exactly will we do that with the current squad, when we have several players in their 30's and no one from the youth team pulling up trees to join the squad?
Plus what exactly qualifies Khaldoun, to decide if the squad is fit for purpose? The new 2 have been brought in because Khaldoun has got the brains to realize that its not his area expertise, so I would dismiss that comment, as one being made on the back of some very poor and self serving advice.

The core of our squad has a very young average age. Who are these several players in their 30's ? We need to replace Lescott/Toure/Barry this summer but two of those three aren't regulars in the first team anymore and in Barry's position we have Garcia, Toure, Milner, Rodwell.

Anyway, even if we do need to replace players I'll say again, it is ridiculous to expect and hope that City will every summer sign players like De Rossi or Van Persie. Again, the last few transfer windows have shown how serious Khaldoun was.

And speaking of Txiki and Ferran - of course they will know the value in a squad needing top quality players and experience, but they have let it be known that the days of City having two international quality players for one position are over. The objective moving forward is having four or five world class players in the squad, supplemented with younger, hungrier, cheaper, players.

As for dismissing comments made by Khaldoun, why on earth would you do that when they are obviously the words of Sheikh Mansour and more importantly, those words have been put into actions, or in this case, inaction, in the transfer market.

You are far more interesting when you are not banging on about Bobby. That's my advice, for what it's worth.

Anyway, I don't think any club will now countenance 2 top internationals for one position for both financial and political reasons [although the Spanish make up their own rules]. As you say, the key is the 4-5 world class players [we may need a couple more!] gelling with players brought through the club 'programme' [Big Tick for us in the years to come].