Explosion at MEN Arena/Victoria Station

[CTID1988]

ISIS isnt an army or a members club, its an ideology. Thats why its so hard to defeat. You may aswel say you are going to go to war with jealousy or paranoia, its a mindset

 

[blueinsa]

The whole thing has been a cycle of violence starting with the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the West collaborating with Pakistan in arming the Mujahideen. They attracted the Arab political extremists like Bin Laden, became the Taliban, who then carried out 9/11 and other acts for which we retaliated, etc. Then we sought to destabilise and overthrow people like Saddam Hussein who, as bad as he was, posed little or no existential threat to us. In doing that we took the lid off the tension he'd contained (albeit brutally) and created a violent political vacuum that was filled by Shia/Sunni conflict involving religious militias. We've since done the same in Syria and Libya, not surprisingly producing the same result.

Of course it's possible that Monday's events and the preceding acts might still have happened had we not done that but anyone who can't see that we have, through short-sighted, knee-jerk or just badly thought out actions, created the ideal breeding ground or incubator for what has happened really needs to go to Specsavers.

Again, superb post.

 

[Blue Llama]

Our foreign policy developers need to get their heads straight. I cannot understand how the UK Governments continue to see our role as one of the "World's Policemen". We are one of the smaller developed countries, what was the Empire is now largely independent and our influence around the world is small and will become smaller still after Brexit. Our standing armed forces are at a level that has not been as small since the 1930s and we rely on the USA for much of our advanced weaponry. Yet our government can be among the first to comment on grievances anywhere in the world and to promise military support despite countries closer in culture, historic relationships etc keeping quiet and having nothing to do with issues much closer to their home. Its time the UK woke up to the fact that we are not one of the world's superpowers anymore, concentrated on our own traditional political relationships and learned from past actions where the 'helped' frequently do not respect us for the help provided once they are bailed out.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Police and Army responding to a call at a college in Trafford (on BBC news now)

I'm guessing some streets might be closed if you live or work in the area...

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

i'm worried that, here in the UK with our supposedly open attitude to speech, if anyone dares to say that the US/UK involvement in the Middle East could be in any way a contributing factor to radicalisation, you get silenced, bullied and called all sorts of things.

I happen to think that US/UK involvement was a contributing factor (contributing, mind) to a lot of this madness. And for the record I do not and never will condone the bombing innocents. Why people have to tell me i'm sympathising scum because i do is a bit upsetting/worrying.

And you could even say that we set the scene for this as far back as 1917 when between us and the French we carved up the Middle East in our assumed role as imperial powers while paying little regard to tribal or religious issues. We created completely artificial countries and rewarded those who we saw as our lapdogs by allowing them to run those countries.

 

[SilverFox2]

IS doesn't have 'Army members,' (Apart from some original Syrian/Iraqi army officers) it is filled with the likes of this murderer, many of whom have travelled from here to join.
I don't think there are cells awaiting instructions from Raqqa, Damocles has eloquently explained that these are unable to
coalesce into anything so sophisticated. The problem we have is the thousands who sympathise with IS, of which this character did.

I stand corrected, by army I did not mean to give it legitimacy but simply to point out that they are located currently in Syria carrying out operations either alone or in groups that appear to be able to frustrate the best attempts of another group composed mainly of armies and special forces from different countries.

They appear to be able to control by takeover geographical areas which they manage to hold by stubborn defence.

 

[SilverFox2]

And you could even say that we set the scene for this as far back as 1917 when between us and the French we carved up the Middle East in our assumed role as imperial powers while paying little regard to tribal or religious issues. We created completely artificial countries and rewarded those who we saw as our lapdogs by allowing them to run those countries.

Creating Pakistan from the original India was not entirely blood free as well.

 

[Blue Llama]

Creating Pakistan from the original India was not entirely blood free as well.

It wasn't but the alternative of Hindus and Muslims continuing with a civil war would have been far worse.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Creating Pakistan from the original India was not entirely blood free as well.

Certainly wasn't. The book 'Freedom At Midnight' is well worth a read about the Indian partition.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

It wasn't but the alternative of Hindus and Muslims continuing with a civil war would have been far worse.

While Jinnah's 'Day of Action' was a catalyst for some violence, by far the worst of the inter-communal violence took place after the Partition Plan was announced.