General Election June 8th

[CityStu]

Or think of it this way:
City Stu in 2010: " Hello Mr Bank Manager, my business is in the shit, I'm in debt big style but I'm going to reduce my current spending and in five years time my books will balance and I can start bringing my total debt down".
Bank Manager: " Alright mate".
City Stu in 2015: "Hello Mr Bank Manager, sorry I haven't eliminated my deficit yet but it's down by 60% and falling."
Bank Manager: Too right you haven't eliminated your deficit, if you had your debt would have been 1.3tn and falling, as it is it's 1.6tn and rising. When are you going to get rid of your deficit?"
City Stu: " Er ..by about 2025....... Maybe"
Bank Manager: " You're 'avin a giraffe , by then your debt will be 2tn and if interest rates go up you'll never pay it back, especially as you're leaving that trading club. No way, you're not borrowing any more I'm capping your overdraft today. Goodbye mate".

It's a possibility, but I'd say a bigger possibility under Labour as the deficit would have been larger and therefore the debt growing faster.

That situation is essentially what's happened in Greece. Deemed irresponsible so their credit rating is shot so they literally can't borrow money so they have no choice but to spend less than they bring in in taxes. That's actual austerity rather than what we've faced in the UK (we still pay far more on public services than we take in tax).

 

[Len Rum]

Its clear that Corbyn and Farron have never negotiated a thing in their life. To achiev positive outcomes in a negotiation the worst thing you can do is give away any or all of your negotiation cards.

Analogies tend to work best. Lets just say that you are looking to leave your current job, have found a new one that you really like the look of, gone through the interview process and reached the point where you are clearly the preferred candidate for the role.

Naturally, the objective for the new job is to secure yourself the best package possible - salary, benefits, pension etc before you actually sign the contract.

When the new employer asks you if you would take the job if offered, what are you looking for salary wise, and are there any other businesses in the mix.

Would you answer....

A) Yes I would take the job as long as the salary is £20k and no there are no other alternatives - you're the only potential new employer

On this basis, what do you think your offer would be ?

Or would you say, Yes really interested in the job, like what I've heard, the salary needs to be better than what I'm on and I am talking to a couple of other businesses but your my preferred choice if this package stacks up ie you're prepared to walk away?

What would the offer be given that response ?

Farron is saying he would take what is negotiated back to the British people to vote on. What this clown is saying to the EU is Give us a sh*t offer, one that the UK people wont accept and guess what, we get the outcome the EU want - The UK staying in the EU.

Under Corbyn we have given away our negotiating position from the off and the EU royally shaft us to get it as we have NO ALTERNATIVE.

It is so naive it is untrue, and a clear demonstration that Corbyn and Farron are not fit for office and would sell this country down the river.

One thing wrong with your analogy is that either your future employer knows you are desperate for the job and are not talking to other employers or he is prepared to to allow you to talk to those employers but that the offer may be withdrawn if you don't accept now.

 

[Len Rum]

It's a possibility, but I'd say a bigger possibility under Labour as the deficit would have been larger and therefore the debt growing faster.

Why?
Alistair Darling ( remember him) in 2010 had a modest but more realistic plan for eliminating the deficit which wouldn't have resulted in crashing the economy in 2012 which has fcuked up the nation's borrowing ever since.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

Why?
Alistair Darling ( remember him) in 2010 had a modest but more realistic plan for eliminating the deficit which wouldn't have resulted in crashing the economy in 2012 which has fcuked up the nation's borrowing ever since.

LOL

This is what the ONS said about your "Crash"

The weakness of the economy in 2012 stemmed principally from a disappointing foreign trade performance. During the first three quarters of 2012, export volumes rose only 0.2 per cent compared with a year earlier, against a 2.5 per cent rise in imports. This in part reflects the weakness in the UK’s main export markets, especially in Europe. Exports of services were particularly weak, falling by over 2 per cent over the period.

 

[Ban-jani]

Those on the right just tend to shout louder.

That's not true in society in general. Look at social media, protests, audiences in TV debates etc.

 

[BLUEMATT23]

Not sure why you're surprised by that. Manchester has always been a Labour stronghold, and most of our users are Manchester-based. To be honest, I'm glad that, despite claims to the contrary, it's still a predominantly left wing forum. Those on the right just tend to shout louder.

It's all about opinions, not suggesting I'm right or that I will be proved right

 

[CityStu]

Why?
Alistair Darling ( remember him) in 2010 had a modest but more realistic plan for eliminating the deficit which wouldn't have resulted in crashing the economy in 2012 which has fcuked up the nation's borrowing ever since.

And this is the point where we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that given the trajectory of the deficit in 2010, it wasn't of particular concern to Labour. I have no confidence that they'd have reduced it to the levels the Conservatives have, if at all given their reluctance to make any cuts in public spending at that time. Whilst I understand the argument that public investment creates growth, I believe the public sector was artificially inflated by borrowing in 2010.

 

[mcfc1632]

And my fear is that the Tories will pander to the UKIP tendency in their party & the electorate instead of being pragmatic.

This is a good debate to be had on the A50 thread.

I do not mean anything derogatory at all - I genuinely and fully understand your views and CIL's and also Len's in the way you word things and are concerned about where things are going to go. I equally have major reservations about where things are going to go - I am not feeling remotely 'gung-ho' - in the manner that we keen Brexiteers are described (somewhat deliberately I would suggest) so as to 'run us down' and imply that we are 'xenophobic/jingoistic' etc.

I would suggest that the bottom line though - is that whilst there is so much in common in our concerns, that in the main, the difference is simply that you remain fully committed to a 'Remain viewpoint' and are not yet in a place where you have accepted that 'Leaving' is what the UK is going to do and therefore discussing how best to manage that in the coming months.

There has been so much focus on why the Leave decision is wrong and little on how to manage it. The A50 thread was started for that purpose, but the Champion Remainers generally prevent that discussion.

Anyways, moot point - If the Conservatives are not returned with a sufficiently large enough majority - we will not be leaving the EU - if it is we are likely to do so and I suggest we had better all turn our thoughts and debate on to how this can best be managed rather than prevented.

Should the Conservatives get their necessary majority then the Champion Remainers might have to allow the A50 thread to discuss going forwards rather than the current situation of deriding any thinking of the future - perhaps, if that does occur, we will see you and CIL on that thread to help move it forwards.

 

[cibaman]

i wouldn't say its a left wing forum tbh. i think its more in the centre of politics.

Left wing apparently as far as the GE is concerned, but 52/48 in favour of Leave. What does that say?

 

[CityStu]

Left wing apparently as far as the GE is concerned, but 52/48 in favour of Leave. What does that say?

Both left wing and right wing have their reasons for disliking, and wanting to leave, the EU.