John Stones - 2016/17 performances

[Rolee]

No I had to fire the game up. I just saw it and edited my post.

Do you still trust Whoscored's figures?

 

[Tugay One Cup]

***Edit. Actually they had it wrong. He did make an important tackle at the 80th. You're correct.

On the flip side, I did say 'numerous times' ;)

 

[ADegenerate]

Do you still trust Whoscored's figures?

That's a massively broad statement. Every tackle, dual, pass, inception is logged and time stamped. I checked every mark on nico and it was accurately lined up with the game. There's thousands of actions throughout the match so of course it's never going to be 100% accurate and things slip through. But yes, I think it's a great tool. Is nico's rating accurately reflected? Probably not.

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

That's a massively broad statement. Every tackle, dual, pass, inception is logged and time stamped. I checked every mark on nico and it was accurately lined up with the game. There's thousands of actions throughout the match so of course it's never going to be 100% accurate and things slip through. But yes, I think it's a great tool. Is nico's rating accurately reflected? Probably not.

I dont mean this as a insult but it shows that you are a US sports fan, that you seem to heavily rely on stats, in virtually all your sports stats are used heavily to decide who is the best, who was MOTM, who is MVP, who is GOAT, so its understandable, and that is why I dont mean it as an insult mate. There is a lot more to football than stats, for me they are only an indicator of who is the best. For example I think the greatest centre mid in the premier league era is Patrick Vieira, he used to dominate the midfield, however his stats are nowhere near those of players like Scholes, Lampard or Gerrard.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

There is a lot more to football than stats

Because it's not just a sport, it's the beautiful game!

 

[Callum Ramsey]

Wait, is otamendi actually being blamed for john stones having poor games. Look I don't think otamendi is that good a defender especially for someone of his age and experience, but stones has looked bad whomever his partner has been many times this season and before for everton.

Stones has started 17 games in the league at center back for the team and the record is 9 wins 5 defeats 3 draws
Otamendi has started 20 games in the league and the team had 14 wins 4 defeats and 2 draws

There's been 8 games where otamendi has started without stones and in those games the teams' record reads 7 wins 1 draw (wins against bournemouth, palace, burnley x2, watford, arsenal, hull and the one draw being the 2-2 against spurs) team conceding 6 goals

Meanwhile in the 5 games stones has started without otamendi the teams record reads 2 wins(sunderland 2-1, swansea 2-1) 2 draws (southampton 1-1, middlesborough 1-1) 1 defeat (leiceter 4-2) team conceding 8 goals

Ironically in all 4 defeats in the games that otamendi has started guess who his partner was. yep stones. You see the pattern here. So really looking at those stats can you tell me who really is holding the other back. The standout being the 4-0 defeat to everton in which he gave one of the worst defensive performances of the season

Stones has made so many unforced errors that have directly led to goals most notably the back pass in the draw against southampton. How some are still failing to acknowledge his many flaws and going as far as blaming his teammates when the evidence suggests otherwise baffles me. Now stones is 22 and otamendi is 29 so he at the very least has age on his side to eradicate some of those flaws therefore you can be more inclined to excuse them for now while otamendi you feel those rush tackles and aggresive, front-foot style of defending is just how he is and may never change but it would be doing a disservice to otamendi if he gets the blame for how poor stones has been for the team.

( I used squawkwa for these stats)

 

[Rolee]

Wait, is otamendi actually being blamed for john stones having poor games. Look I don't think otamendi is that good a defender especially for someone of his age and experience, but stones has looked bad whomever his partner has been many times this season and before for everton.

Stones has started 17 games in the league at center back for the team and the record is 9 wins 5 defeats 3 draws
Otamendi has started 20 games in the league and the team had 14 wins 4 defeats and 2 draws

There's been 8 games where otamendi has started without stones and in those games the teams' record reads 7 wins 1 draw (wins against bournemouth, palace, burnley x2, watford, arsenal, hull and the one draw being the 2-2 against spurs) team conceding 6 goals

Meanwhile in the 5 games stones has started without otamendi the teams record reads 2 wins(sunderland 2-1, swansea 2-1) 2 draws (southampton 1-1, middlesborough 1-1) 1 defeat (leiceter 4-2) team conceding 8 goals

Ironically in all 4 defeats in the games that otamendi has started guess who his partner was. yep stones. You see the pattern here. So really looking at those stats can you tell me who really is holding the other back. The standout being the 4-0 defeat to everton in which he gave one of the worst defensive performances of the season

Stones has made so many unforced errors that have directly led to goals most notably the back pass in the draw against southampton. How some are still failing to acknowledge his many flaws and going as far as blaming his teammates when the evidence suggests otherwise baffles me. Now stones is 22 and otamendi is 29 so he at the very least has age on his side to eradicate some of those flaws therefore you can be more inclined to excuse them for now while otamendi you feel those rush tackles and aggresive, front-foot style of defending is just how he is and may never change but it would be doing a disservice to otamendi if he gets the blame for how poor stones has been for the team.

(i.e I used squawkwa for these stats)

No.

 

[schfc6]

I dont mean this as a insult but it shows that you are a US sports fan, that you seem to heavily rely on stats, in virtually all your sports stats are used heavily to decide who is the best, who was MOTM, who is MVP, who is GOAT, so its understandable, and that is why I dont mean it as an insult mate. There is a lot more to football than stats, for me they are only an indicator of who is the best. For example I think the greatest centre mid in the premier league era is Patrick Vieira, he used to dominate the midfield, however his stats are nowhere near those of players like Scholes, Lampard or Gerrard.

As @Rolee is saying, and yourself. There is simply no stat for positioning. As one poster put, Rio Ferdinand or Alan Hanson's stats would be way off Otamendi. I don't path ink Alessandro Nesta ever made a tackle. It's positioning that counts in defending.

 

[Callum Ramsey]

No.

Stones biggest problem is who he has next to him. He's still learning his trade and as such should be paired with an experienced older head who can point him in the right direction. Instead he has Otamendi, who is frequently out of position or makes a rash challenge and gets turned, leaving Stones to deal with the aftermath. Quite often you will see Stones shouting instructions to Otamendi when he should actually be getting them.
The talent is clearly there and I am still hopeful it will shine through, it won't with clowns like Otamendi next to him though.

This was the exact quote by someone earlier in the thread

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

As @Rolee is saying, and yourself. There is simply no stat for positioning. As one poster put, Rio Ferdinand or Alan Hanson's stats would be way off Otamendi. I don't path ink Alessandro Nesta ever made a tackle. It's positioning that counts in defending.

Yup, positioning is a vital attribute for a top defender, i said the same about Hanson, he hardly made a tackle, let alone a slide tackle.