This age group is the one mate. They've won everything at every level all the way through. If these don't get into the first team we may as well blow the Academy up and build an investment bank
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MCFC u16s 10 - 0 M'boro.
- Thread starter twosips
- Start date
This age group is the one mate. They've won everything at every level all the way through. If these don't get into the first team we may as well blow the Academy up and build an investment bank
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blueinsa
Guest
This age group is the one mate. They've won everything at every level all the way through. If these don't get into the first team we may as well blow the Academy up and build an investment bank
Have some faith bud.
Have some faith bud.
I did 7 years ago and reaffirmed when Txiki took over. However watching manager after manager and squad after squad completely ignore any of our youth players has eroded it down to a "it's PR bullshit" position. Mancini came here and spoke about how important youth players were, then never brought through a single youth player into the squad. Then Pellegrini came here and spoke about holistic approaches and how the communication between the Academy would be much better. Then has never played any youth players or integrated them into the squad.
Proof is ultimately in the pudding and I am pretty certain that we're the only club in the Champions League that has 0 club trained players in their squad. Again, if people don't think this is an issue then they're being wilfully ignorant.
I did 7 years ago and reaffirmed when Txiki took over. However watching manager after manager and squad after squad completely ignore any of our youth players has eroded it down to a "it's PR bullshit" position. Mancini came here and spoke about how important youth players were, then never brought through a single youth player into the squad. Then Pellegrini came here and spoke about holistic approaches and how the communication between the Academy would be much better. Then has never played any youth players or integrated them into the squad.
Proof is ultimately in the pudding and I am pretty certain that we're the only club in the Champions League that has 0 club trained players in their squad. Again, if people don't think this is an issue then they're being wilfully ignorant.
As you know man, im a huge advocate of youth team stuff, but i dont think stretching it to 7 years is fair seeing as for the five prior to last season were mainly full of kids like Scapuzzi, Razak and a raw Rekik (who just hasnt been good enough)... Suarez is never gonna be cut out for our level either in England. He's too soft/passive for this league. Mancini did give some kid games in cup comps too. I remember it happening. Last year was the first real year where there was proper talent that was unfairly ignored imo, and this year could be the same again. I'll give them the other years though as it wasnt particularly a golden generation.
JoeMercer'sWay
Well-Known Member
we've spent a sizable amount on Roberts, Denayer has a new contract, Iheanacho has been in the squad, and with a Bony knock, will be tomorrow. Lopes hasn't quite made the grade, Barker, Garcia have another year to develop, Humphreys had pre-season exposure, and the year group below has the likes of Faour and Brahim, who are highly rated.
The problem is in the past few years the players that count as HG haven't been good enough, and the more promising ones are either slightly too young and inexperienced, or haven't qualified as a HG player yet. It will be another year or 2, but it will be worth it. Txiki is developing the squad so that it is so good we can afford to populate it with youngsters, and next summer I see no more than 2 or 3 huge signings, and if someone like Pep comes in, then he has a proven track record of playing youth, and I think as he's Pep, he'll get given the time and leeway to stamp his philosophy on it.
I think this season is all about winning the league in as dominant fashion as possible, trying to pick up a domestic trophy and really advancing in the Champs League. I think as a club we need to sweep up this season, and take that next step as a club which puts us in a position closer to Barca, enabling us to have the best of both worlds. At the moment we're still a "trading trophies" club, to be an elite club we need to rake in the trophies and cement ourselves at the top. This is a huge transitional summer and season for the club, the change in perception is starting, we need to back it up all season and cement it.
The problem is in the past few years the players that count as HG haven't been good enough, and the more promising ones are either slightly too young and inexperienced, or haven't qualified as a HG player yet. It will be another year or 2, but it will be worth it. Txiki is developing the squad so that it is so good we can afford to populate it with youngsters, and next summer I see no more than 2 or 3 huge signings, and if someone like Pep comes in, then he has a proven track record of playing youth, and I think as he's Pep, he'll get given the time and leeway to stamp his philosophy on it.
I think this season is all about winning the league in as dominant fashion as possible, trying to pick up a domestic trophy and really advancing in the Champs League. I think as a club we need to sweep up this season, and take that next step as a club which puts us in a position closer to Barca, enabling us to have the best of both worlds. At the moment we're still a "trading trophies" club, to be an elite club we need to rake in the trophies and cement ourselves at the top. This is a huge transitional summer and season for the club, the change in perception is starting, we need to back it up all season and cement it.
As you know man, im a huge advocate of youth team stuff, but i dont think stretching it to 7 years is fair seeing as for the five prior to last season were mainly full of kids like Scapuzzi, Razak and a raw Rekik (who just hasnt been good enough)
The thing is though the choice isn't between finding the new Aguero or nothing. Rekik was raw but decent enough for a few games here and there, this is the essence of squad building that you will have players who might not be the best players in the world but will work hard and improve with game time. Trippier could have had a few games as could have Mee without it costing us anything around that time, 5 games each for them could have changed their careers. Same with Guidetti. Huws was another - a neat little passer who was one of those who could come on for the last 10 minutes and play keep ball when desired. Denis Suarez is obvious.
This is the key mistake that I think people seem to make when discussing youth prospects, they look at them as like players on FIFA who have a set rating and a set ceiling. The problem is that we don't give these players first team football which impedes their development and then when they end up at Wigan or Doncaster people say "oh look, they were never good enough anyway as they wouldn't be at that level" but this is missing the point that the reason they are at that level is because they missed out on high level football during the most crucial time of their development.
Vladi Weiss for me is an excellent example of a player who was good enough to be in our squad, was a hard worker and a talented individual who offered us something different from what else we had and ultimately never developed into the player he could have become because we either ignored him or sent him on loan to Bolton with the promise that this would "help him". No what would have helped him was playing 15 games a season for us instead of buying Scott Sinclair or Adam Johnson for ten million quid or however much we spunked on them. He went to Bolton and they stuck him on the bench. Then went to Rangers and won a title. Then came back and we fucked him off somewhere else, Espanyol. Then decided we didn't fancy him any more because he hadn't developed well. Of course he didn't develop well, he's been getting bounced from pillar to post for the last 4 years.
The fact is that Weiss is now somewhere in Qatar and the uncomfortable truth that some on here will never admit to is that if he had joined a different club apart from City that is not where he'd be. Yes, sometimes world class talents can rise above this. But some players needs trust and stability to get to that level and we have never given them this.
This idea that because our promising youth end up at Scunthorpe that they must have been crap is looking at it backwards. They ended up at Scunthorpe despite early promise because we never allowed them to fulfil their potential. It's not all our fault of course but when all the students are failing for the past 7 years it is ridiculous to not have a look at the teacher
Forzacitizens
Well-Known Member
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Will there be a video available?
The thing is though the choice isn't between finding the new Aguero or nothing. Rekik was raw but decent enough for a few games here and there, this is the essence of squad building that you will have players who might not be the best players in the world but will work hard and improve with game time. Trippier could have had a few games as could have Mee without it costing us anything around that time, 5 games each for them could have changed their careers. Same with Guidetti. Huws was another - a neat little passer who was one of those who could come on for the last 10 minutes and play keep ball when desired. Denis Suarez is obvious.
This is the key mistake that I think people seem to make when discussing youth prospects, they look at them as like players on FIFA who have a set rating and a set ceiling. The problem is that we don't give these players first team football which impedes their development and then when they end up at Wigan or Doncaster people say "oh look, they were never good enough anyway as they wouldn't be at that level" but this is missing the point that the reason they are at that level is because they missed out on high level football during the most crucial time of their development.
Vladi Weiss for me is an excellent example of a player who was good enough to be in our squad, was a hard worker and a talented individual who offered us something different from what else we had and ultimately never developed into the player he could have become because we either ignored him or sent him on loan to Bolton with the promise that this would "help him". No what would have helped him was playing 15 games a season for us instead of buying Scott Sinclair or Adam Johnson for ten million quid or however much we spunked on them. He went to Bolton and they stuck him on the bench. Then went to Rangers and won a title. Then came back and we fucked him off somewhere else, Espanyol. Then decided we didn't fancy him any more because he hadn't developed well. Of course he didn't develop well, he's been getting bounced from pillar to post for the last 4 years.
The fact is that Weiss is now somewhere in Qatar and the uncomfortable truth that some on here will never admit to is that if he had joined a different club apart from City that is not where he'd be. Yes, sometimes world class talents can rise above this. But some players needs trust and stability to get to that level and we have never given them this.
This idea that because our promising youth end up at Scunthorpe that they must have been crap is looking at it backwards. They ended up at Scunthorpe despite early promise because we never allowed them to fulfil their potential. It's not all our fault of course but when all the students are failing for the past 7 years it is ridiculous to not have a look at the teacher
Mate i am in 100% agreement with you in every point. I was just willing to give them the benefit of the doubt over those five years as those players, Weiss aside, never really stood out for me as exceptional talents, even if they deserved game. This lot ARE exceptional talents though and that makes it even more uncomfortable for me. I 100% agree with everything you've said.
JoeMercer'sWay
Well-Known Member
The thing is though the choice isn't between finding the new Aguero or nothing. Rekik was raw but decent enough for a few games here and there, this is the essence of squad building that you will have players who might not be the best players in the world but will work hard and improve with game time. Trippier could have had a few games as could have Mee without it costing us anything around that time, 5 games each for them could have changed their careers. Same with Guidetti. Huws was another - a neat little passer who was one of those who could come on for the last 10 minutes and play keep ball when desired. Denis Suarez is obvious.
This is the key mistake that I think people seem to make when discussing youth prospects, they look at them as like players on FIFA who have a set rating and a set ceiling. The problem is that we don't give these players first team football which impedes their development and then when they end up at Wigan or Doncaster people say "oh look, they were never good enough anyway as they wouldn't be at that level" but this is missing the point that the reason they are at that level is because they missed out on high level football during the most crucial time of their development.
Vladi Weiss for me is an excellent example of a player who was good enough to be in our squad, was a hard worker and a talented individual who offered us something different from what else we had and ultimately never developed into the player he could have become because we either ignored him or sent him on loan to Bolton with the promise that this would "help him". No what would have helped him was playing 15 games a season for us instead of buying Scott Sinclair or Adam Johnson for ten million quid or however much we spunked on them. He went to Bolton and they stuck him on the bench. Then went to Rangers and won a title. Then came back and we fucked him off somewhere else, Espanyol. Then decided we didn't fancy him any more because he hadn't developed well. Of course he didn't develop well, he's been getting bounced from pillar to post for the last 4 years.
The fact is that Weiss is now somewhere in Qatar and the uncomfortable truth that some on here will never admit to is that if he had joined a different club apart from City that is not where he'd be. Yes, sometimes world class talents can rise above this. But some players needs trust and stability to get to that level and we have never given them this.
This idea that because our promising youth end up at Scunthorpe that they must have been crap is looking at it backwards. They ended up at Scunthorpe despite early promise because we never allowed them to fulfil their potential. It's not all our fault of course but when all the students are failing for the past 7 years it is ridiculous to not have a look at the teacher
Well, I agree somewhat, but at the same time, it's also the difference between a lad like Trippier, who worked his way back up, and a guy like Weiss, who did ok elsewhere, but then saw the money in Qatar and decided he'd had his lot. I'd also argue that the club has moved on a lot since then, and a guy like Weiss probably wouldn't get those loans if he was breaking through now, I do think we take more care over them, but it's also down to the player/agent, like Denayer, to go with set requirements and find a suitable club. If he can do that, then there's no reason others can't take the initiative and force themselves suitable loans.
The fact is, the lack of a B team does hurt us compared to La Liga clubs, and unfortunately we're in the most competitive league and have to retain our spot. The lack of new youth at all the top 4 sides this season reflects that problem. Maybe if we can help Girona into La Liga, it could be our way around it.