Why Is Communism Celebrated By This City?

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I shall embrace communism until my double rollover win. Then yer can all fuck yerselves!

Is there a potential move to the Tunnel Club on our hands?....

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Maybe because the principles of real communism (From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs) if implemented properly would lead to a fair just society. Unfortunately, as has been demonstrated in all the countries that have tried to embrace communism, it doesn't actually work in the real world because human nature gets in the way and they all end up with authoritarian governments, suppression of opposition and dictators in charge (i.e. Fascism). So it's not communism that has caused the deaths of 10's of millions of people, it's the fascist implementation of a perversion of it.

I would say that the opposite is just as likely to be the case. The holocaust happened because of a deliberately evil policy, but deaths due to communism weren't for the most part a result of evil dictators murdering people (although obviously both Stalin and Mao did their fair share of that), they were very specifically caused by a failure in the economic ideology. 50 million Chinese died in China not because Mao deliberately killed them, but because communism was unable to provide them with adequate food at they starved. The current turmoil in Venezuela might be continuing for longer than necessary because of an authoritarian government clinging onto power, but it was originally caused by extremely naive economic policy.

Incidentally, counting the bodies isn't a particularly effective way of determining the most harmful ideology. Lot's of people died under Mao because he was in charge of more people than anyone else. That's like saying that the current communist party of China is the greatest political organisation in the world right now because their reforms have lifted more people out of poverty than anyone else. They just happened to be in a position of power where their policies are responsible for a greater number of people so anything they do, good or bad, has a wider impact. If you really want to make it a numbers game, you really have to look at percentages of populations. In terms of percentages, Stalin and Mao are way down the list. Racial supremacist ideologies have long been at the top of such lists, such as Hutu Power, who wiped out 70% of the Tutsi population of Rwanda in just 100 days, or the holocaust, which took the lives of 80% of non-German Jews in Europe. Pol Pot, of course, did his best to get communism up there, with nearly a third of the country killed including far greater numbers of specific minority groups.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

And what connects them more?

They were all homicidal maniacs.

Apart from Castro don't know how he made the list.

Communist ideology didn't require mass murder or tyranny.

These guys were homicidal maniacs without priming.

I have read Das Capital and Mein Kampf and so far have evaded thoughts of murdering millions of dissidents or wiping out the Jews.

But wait!

I'm not a homicidal maniac!

Feel cheated.

What also connects them is that they were all communists, each and every one.
You inferred that somehow this system may have produced something like an egalitarian paradise if it
weren't for homicidal maniacs who have somehow hijacked said system. My take on it is that the system, tenets
and structure of communism inevitably produces monsters, hence the monsters listed in my post. I don't know of any communist
society that has produced anyone that could be described as benign,bar Gerbachov, who fucked the whole horrorshow off.
If you don't know why Castro is on the list, then I'm afraid there is nothing that may be said that would enhance
this lively discussion.

 

[Magicpole]

What also connects them is that they were all communists, each and every one.
You inferred that somehow this system may have produced something like an egalitarian paradise if it
weren't for homicidal maniacs who have somehow hijacked said system. My take on it is that the system, tenets
and structure of communism inevitably produces monsters, hence the monsters listed in my post. I don't know of any communist
society that has produced anyone that could be described as benign,bar Gerbachov, who fucked the whole horrorshow off.
If you don't know why Castro is on the list, then I'm afraid there is nothing that may be said that would enhance
this lively discussion.

Your take on my take, takes the biscuit.

All I'm saying is an idea or political philosophy isn't responsible for the actions of those who use it to control.

That's my point. You are giving an idea the capability to mass myrder.

That's bollocks.

It's an idea. End of

 

[hilts]

Any ideology that disregards human nature is a pointless waste of time. For those dreamer lefties arguing that humans can be cunts and ruin it welcome to the real world. Most of us have been living in it for quite a while.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Your take on my take, takes the biscuit.

All I'm saying is an idea or political philosophy isn't responsible for the actions of those who use it to control.

That's my point. You are giving an idea the capability to mass myrder.

That's bollocks.

It's an idea. End of

I'm saying that this particular idea has produced mass murder everywhere it has been implemented.
You are correct though, as an idea it is certainly bollocks.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Any ideology that disregards human nature is a pointless waste of time. For those dreamer lefties arguing that humans can be cunts and ruin it welcome to the real world. Most of us have been living in it for quite a while.

Time to unleash this cracker...

 

[SWP's back]

not in one instance but rack them up.

I would say though not in the millions the uva masacre in itself by the actions taken was
as bad as anything
The Boer war also.

Still not even in the same league, as bad as it was.

It's not even a factor of ten in the same league.

 

[urban genie]

Still not even in the same league, as bad as it was.

It's not even a factor of ten in the same league.

I said numbers wise it wasn't the same, but the methods used were barbaric.

Point is it has been human nature to be cunts to each other long before communism came along and will unfortunately carry after it is a distant memory

 

[MellowJoe]

I would say that the opposite is just as likely to be the case. The holocaust happened because of a deliberately evil policy, but deaths due to communism weren't for the most part a result of evil dictators murdering people (although obviously both Stalin and Mao did their fair share of that), they were very specifically caused by a failure in the economic ideology. 50 million Chinese died in China not because Mao deliberately killed them, but because communism was unable to provide them with adequate food at they starved. The current turmoil in Venezuela might be continuing for longer than necessary because of an authoritarian government clinging onto power, but it was originally caused by extremely naive economic policy.

Incidentally, counting the bodies isn't a particularly effective way of determining the most harmful ideology. Lot's of people died under Mao because he was in charge of more people than anyone else. That's like saying that the current communist party of China is the greatest political organisation in the world right now because their reforms have lifted more people out of poverty than anyone else. They just happened to be in a position of power where their policies are responsible for a greater number of people so anything they do, good or bad, has a wider impact. If you really want to make it a numbers game, you really have to look at percentages of populations. In terms of percentages, Stalin and Mao are way down the list. Racial supremacist ideologies have long been at the top of such lists, such as Hutu Power, who wiped out 70% of the Tutsi population of Rwanda in just 100 days, or the holocaust, which took the lives of 80% of non-German Jews in Europe. Pol Pot, of course, did his best to get communism up there, with nearly a third of the country killed including far greater numbers of specific minority groups.

*Thumbs up*