Claudio Bravo - 2016/2017 performances (continued)

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Rolee said:
Ok there wasn't much of a dive, he set himself to dive to his left though, then the ball deflected which did change the direction quite significantly meaning a shot that would have gone to his left at about knee height ended up on the floor as it passed him. I'm not excusing him, he should've reacted but your comparison isn't a great one at all.
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There wasn't even an obvious deflection. It was trivial. Watch the clip again. The ball had a spin to it was already going to where it ended. It had the exact spin before and after passing Zabaleta and the exact height trajectory before and after. He was already right in the path of the ball but decided to dive when it was too late. My comparison again as not on the dive because there was no dive. My comparison is using legs to save when your weight is on the other foot. You don't save those kind of balls close to your ankles with both hands.

Ultimately it's a coaching issue for me. We won both titles when Battara was here, we were solid at the back and Hart was unplayable. 2014 Battara left. We need someone who can make Pantilimon from a lanky keeper whose stregpngth was his height, to the keeper he is now strong in 1v1 and very good at shotstopping. Not a top keeper but Pantilimon improved into a midtable keeper.
 
shaiomarali said:
There wasn't even an obvious deflection. It was trivial. Watch the clip again. The ball had a spin to it was already going to where it ended. It had the exact spin before and after passing Zabaleta and the exact height trajectory before and after. He was already right in the path of the ball but decided to dive when it was too late. My comparison again as not on the dive because there was no dive. My comparison is using legs to save when your weight is on the other foot. You don't save those kind of balls close to your ankles with both hands.

Ultimately it's a coaching issue for me. We won both titles when Battara was here, we were solid at the back and Hart was unplayable. 2014 Battara left. We need someone who can make Pantilimon from a lanky keeper whose stregpngth was his height, to the keeper he is now strong in 1v1 and very good at shotstopping. Not a top keeper but Pantilimon improved into a midtable keeper.
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You're wrong, watch the 60fps again and you'll see that when Bunn strikes the ball it is rising, when it hits Zaba the trajectory changes completely. I'm gobsmacked that you can't see this.
 
Rolee said:
You're wrong, watch the 60fps again and you'll see that when Bunn strikes the ball it is rising, when it hits Zaba the trajectory changes completely. I'm gobsmacked that you can't see this.
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Ok I'm willing to listen. Can you direct me to the video that shows this without the supposed deflection being blocked from view and in slower fps? If there is one I am willing to hold my hands up.
 
shaiomarali said:
Ok I'm willing to listen. Can you direct me to the video that shows this without the supposed deflection being blocked from view and in slower fps? If there is one I am willing to hold my hands up.
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This is the video I'm looking at



If you go frame by frame on the last replay you'll see the ball travelling up, the deflection is blocked from view by Otamendi but it's obvious it came off either Zaba's calf or the back of his heel which sent the trajectory downwards and brought it closer to Bravo.
 
Rolee said:
This is the video I'm looking at



If you go frame by frame on the last replay you'll see the ball travelling up, the deflection is blocked from view by Otamendi but it's obvious it came off either Zaba's calf or the back of his heel which sent the trajectory downwards and brought it closer to Bravo.
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Ok. So you mean this same video that this exact frame show the ball is halfway between Zaba and Bravo, after supposedly a deflection whose best viewing is blocked by Otamendi and in this frame show that the ball is already between Zab and Bravo but Bravo still hasnt dived?

image.jpg


How sure are you the deflection, if there even was a significant one, threw him off?
 
Rolee said:
Who specifically? Have you anything, quotes or otherwise to back that up?
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I have spoken to plenty of opposition fans and read quite a few on forums who were delighted at the prospect at facing us with bravo in the team. If you need quotes to accept that then you really are just being pedantic because he's been fucking shit for us, you know it, everyone knows it, so of course opposition fans are happier if we pick him. Someone actually posted something in here before the West Ham match from their forum saying something along the lines of, it'll be a different match in the league because they will have bravo in goals. Thankfully pep dropped him, picked willy and we kept a clean sheet but the fact remains, when they thought we were going to have bravo in goal they thought they had a chance and why wouldn't they.
 
shaiomarali said:
Ok. So you mean this same video that this exact frame show the ball is halfway between Zaba and Bravo, after supposedly a deflection whose best viewing is blocked by Otamendi and in this frame show that the ball is already between Zab and Bravo but Bravo still hasnt dived?

image.jpg


How sure are you the deflection, if there even was a significant one, threw him off?
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How sure are you that it didn't?

Btw, this is typical for the Bravo thread. We discuss either he could've saved it endlessly yet hardly a mention how our midfield started not to press hard enough, allowing Huddersfield to move the ball around, than our defence and especially Zabaleta totally fecked up by just following the ball and not the players around them, Zabaleta decided to go inwards and decides it too late only to totally free up Bunn. Than Zabaleta tried to repair what he did wrong and managed to get a tiny flick on the ball that was enough to leave Bravo with hardly a chance. Hardly, and that is where the discussing on here begins ... Just plain stupid, but whatever.

Anyone noticed the absolute fantastic Falcao-like chip Bravo did when setting up the 4th goal? Not discussing this are we? Both Caballero and Hart (I mention him for the ones who still blame Bravo for Hart leaving) would have totally feck that one up.
Naah, let's get back to discussing the tiny deflection, the moment he should have dived, and if the deflection came from Zabaleta's heel or calf ... again, whatever.
 
He never seems to react quickly enough or with the right movement, it's almost like keeping is unnatural to him.

In that still you'd have expected most keepers to have set themselves and be making their move to block the shot, he's still stood there. Has happened time and time again this season.
 
eversince 76 said:
How sure are you that it didn't?

Btw, this is typical for the Bravo thread. We discuss either he could've saved it endlessly yet hardly a mention how our midfield started not to press hard enough, allowing Huddersfield to move the ball around, than our defence and especially Zabaleta totally fecked up by just following the ball and not the players around them, Zabaleta decided to go inwards and decides it too late only to totally free up Bunn. Than Zabaleta tried to repair what he did wrong and managed to get a tiny flick on the ball that was enough to leave Bravo with hardly a chance. Hardly, and that is where the discussing on here begins ... Just plain stupid, but whatever.

Anyone noticed the absolute fantastic Falcao-like chip Bravo did when setting up the 4th goal? Not discussing this are we? Both Caballero and Hart (I mention him for the ones who still blame Bravo for Hart leaving) would have totally feck that one up.
Naah, let's get back to discussing the tiny deflection, the moment he should have dived, and if the deflection came from Zabaleta's heel or calf ... again, whatever.
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My issue is not on how Bravo is performing against shots. Read my previous posts that go months back

http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/t...rmances-continued.326406/page-56#post-9961091

my issue is that Bravo is using too much of his anticipation training to stop shots and end up between saving with his legs or his hands and the ball fizzling by. No matter how confidence he becomes it won't fix the problem that he won't stop most pot shots. He needs to be trained to be more reactionary, I've been banging about this for months now. de gea was retrained to shed his anticipatory coaching. Benching him once in awhile and trying to wean him back in to I still his confidence won't do any good if every few games he concedes straightforward shots and the fans get on his back, which I don't condone either.

What he needs is retraining and familiarising with the league. We didn't give a chance for Hart to at least develop his footwork, I think bravo should be given the chance to be retrained.
 
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Rolee said:
This is the video I'm looking at



If you go frame by frame on the last replay you'll see the ball travelling up, the deflection is blocked from view by Otamendi but it's obvious it came off either Zaba's calf or the back of his heel which sent the trajectory downwards and brought it closer to Bravo.
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Ball leaves Bunn's foot

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Ball is travelling up

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Deflection


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Ball travelling down as result of deflection



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Ball on the deck as it passes Bravo.

Again, not excusing him because he doesn't react to the deflection but to not acknowledge that deflections as changed the trajectory is absurd.
 
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Lancet Fluke said:
I have spoken to plenty of opposition fans and read quite a few on forums who were delighted at the prospect at facing us with bravo in the team. If you need quotes to accept that then you really are just being pedantic because he's been fucking shit for us, you know it, everyone knows it, so of course opposition fans are happier if we pick him. Someone actually posted something in here before the West Ham match from their forum saying something along the lines of, it'll be a different match in the league because they will have bravo in goals. Thankfully pep dropped him, picked willy and we kept a clean sheet but the fact remains, when they thought we were going to have bravo in goal they thought they had a chance and why wouldn't they.
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Apologies, I didn't realise we were talking about opposition fans, I thought Bill was referring to the opposition.
 
Ive watched that video scores of times now. Taking freeze frames to indicate ball trajectory isnt going to be accurate. My take it on it is this, the shot was aimed low towards Bravo's legs and straight at him because any professional player worth their salt already knows that there is a pretty flipping good chance you will score. I dont see any deflection significant enough to alter the flight or path of the ball at all either.
 
Rolee said:
Apologies, I didn't realise we were talking about opposition fans, I thought Bill was referring to the opposition.
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Would it be that much of a stretch to say it is likely opposition players would prefer to face a keeper who is bang out of form and is struggling to save anything? Logic tells me at the moment teams must get a right lift if bravo's name is on the team sheet. Mind you, the way we defend must give them a lift too.
 
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