Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

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Magicpole said:
Show me a post where I wish hell fire and damnation on you? You won't find one. On the other hand I just need look at your last few and that is not reciprocated. As many ithers are too.

Because I think it's going to be fucked, does not mean and I want anybody to suffer that. My anger stems from the fact I believe it will be people from my class that will end up getting the worst end of the shitty stick.

What kind of utter **** would I be if I wanted men women and children to endure that?

You mixing up being fucked off with the situation with wanting revenge of some sort. I don't.
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The moaning class?
 
Whats your stance on Celtic playing in the Premier League mp. Is that one of the bits that you want to cherry pick if you got your independence or is the Scottish League good enough?
 
Cannot understand any northerner (or midlander, cornwaillan and welshman/woman tbf) would want to give scotland grief, we have all been shit on together for the last 40 years and will continue to be shat on while governments use bollocks to divide us. The country may do ok after our exit, but them cunts in charge wil be the ones to reap reward, even more so if it is a perpetual tory government.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
ll we've got to go on is 40 years of an unprecedented rise in living standards, huge improvements in workers rights, free and unrestricted travel across Europe (not to mention no European wars for the longest time).
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But that's conflating correlation with causation.

We've not just had no European wars but no major wars since the Second World War so the EU's effects on that are negligible at best. This fits much better with the rise of democracies who tend to get involved in major conflicts much less as per this video:



In fact all of your effects happened worldwide rather than just in Europe now that I mention it.
 
Magicpole said:
By the time that milk reaches us it's off and covered in flies.

15 years of Tories or their by then copycat labour equivalent thereafter reminds me of a Blackadder quote:

A fate worse than a fate worse than death.
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If it's any consolation the i can recall that the rest of the UK was held to thirteen years of Labour rule, kept in power on the back of Scottish Labour voters.
 
smudgedj said:
If it's any consolation the i can recall that the rest of the UK was held to thirteen years of Labour rule, kept in power on the back of Scottish Labour voters.
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They weren't labour though, Tory lite with a habit of throwing money down bottomless pits
 
Damocles said:
But that's conflating correlation with causation.

We've not just had no European wars but no major wars since the Second World War so the EU's effects on that are negligible at best. This fits much better with the rise of democracies who tend to get involved in major conflicts much less as per this video:



In fact all of your effects happened worldwide rather than just in Europe now that I mention it.
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Indeed that is true. I just think we're about to shake all that up, in ways that obviously cannot be foreseen. Change is a very difficult concept, even when the endpoint is known and the evidence is overwhelming, so change when everything is hugely uncertain is much more difficult. It's hardly surprising that, to many, maintaining the status quo feels like the best option.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
Indeed that is true. I just think we're about to shake all that up, in ways that obviously cannot be foreseen. Change is a very difficult concept, even when the endpoint is known and the evidence is overwhelming, so change when everything is hugely uncertain is much more difficult. It's hardly surprising that, to many, maintaining the status quo feels like the best option.
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Half of my problem with the Remain cause to be honest is how it's so philosophical in nature. Now don't get me wrong, I voted Remain purely for philosophical reasons because it's closer to the one world Government idea but this isn't a choice between Rome and the barbarians.

The EU is just a trading union and isn't some higher state of being. The world's not going to collapse because we've left it and there's a bunch of non-European countries who yet somehow manage to function without the EU.

The way that some present this issue as a regression into degeneracy is irritating. I don't agree with their politics but I can see how Brexiteers feel constantly patronised and demonised in equal part. Like they're the vile underbelly of British society who are holding us from enlightenment. It's all very ridiculous.

A fundamental part of any change is to accept new realities and adapt to them. I don't see the Leave vote as a wholesale rejection of European federalism, I see it as a rejection of the EU as it currently stands and a lack of faith in the possibility of any meaningful reform. Even the most ardent supporter will acknowledge the problems with the democratic structure, the problems with competing interests over FTA agreements and the problems with lack of worker economic protectionism due to free movement. You can't just dismiss these with a "yeah well it's fine because...", they're real problems with real effects that genuinely hurt people's quality of life and livelihood.

A step away from the EU isn't a step away from modernity, it's just a step away from the EU. We're just as safe and potentially prosperous as we were yesterday albeit with a slightly changed objective.

It's just a trading union.
 
smudgedj said:
If it's any consolation the i can recall that the rest of the UK was held to thirteen years of Labour rule, kept in power on the back of Scottish Labour voters.
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And through it all the be it Labour, Tory or Tory light the Scots got more than their fair share and still some of them fucking moan and whinge and have the gall to tell the rest of us what a hard deal they get. Try living in the north west or north east of England where you get the square root of fuck all whitehall expenditure. Northern powerhouse my arse! That phrase is just a gingoistic strap line painted on some motorway roadworks signs that will let us drive on the bloody hard shoulder. Their whinging is pathetic.
 
smudgedj said:
Bloody jocks; keeping tory lite in power.
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My eldest will have £40k of debt in a few months time all thanks to that twat Blair and his duplicitous Scottish mps with their fuck England double standards. But hey its all ok because french polish italian romanian german and so on in fact all 27 other eu countries are entitled to free university education in Scotland paid for by UK taxpayers while English kids are charged and blatantly descriminated against. I loathe Westminster governments of all persuasions.
 
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smudgedj said:
If it's any consolation the i can recall that the rest of the UK was held to thirteen years of Labour rule, kept in power on the back of Scottish Labour voters.
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That's not actually a fact. They had enough without us.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
My eldest will have £40k of debt in a few months time all thanks to that twat Blair and his duplicitous Scottish mps with their fuck England double standards. But hey its all ok because french polish italian romanian german and so on in fact all 27 other eu countries are entitled to free university education in Scotland paid for by UK taxpayers while English kids are charged and blatantly descriminated against. I loathe Westminster governments of all persuasions.
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He could have got a free university education taught in English at any of the Italian universities.
Italy is the home of university education.
 
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