I don't live in an ivory tower. I know we lost. I know we have to deal with the consequences.
The problem I have is the failure of people to see the consequences and accept that it might be terrible.
It might not. If it isn't I will be the first to put my hands up.
Equally, if it goes south then I will be quick to say, we fucking told you.
Your vision to me is too simplistic and hazard free. I just don't see that transpiring.
If he wasn't you would be jumping all over him for not having a plan B pmsl.
Spot on - his pronouncement is simply ignorance at best and deliberate sabotage of the UK's negotiating position at worstThe brexit committee are too fuckin stupid to realise they just weakened the uks hand with that stupid annoucement. Benn should be sacked immediately. Thats the problem with the majority of MPs they have never done a proper job in their lives. They have never negotiated anything. The team leading the negotiations should be made up with hard nosed business people. Not mps and civil servants who wouldnt know a good deal if it hit them on their arse. They will just cost us needless money and time.
Fuck me - please tell the world that there are not really millions like youAs I said, emotion is the leavers driving force. This is a gut response, fuelled by gutter journalism and a heavy dose of jingoism. Your post drips with misplaced hatred and resentment with the use of words like "parasite" and "dictate" and ludicrous toytown analogies to depict the greatest political gamble of a generation.
Not buying it and neither are millions like me.
Half of my problem with the Remain cause to be honest is how it's so philosophical in nature. Now don't get me wrong, I voted Remain purely for philosophical reasons because it's closer to the one world Government idea but this isn't a choice between Rome and the barbarians.
The EU is just a trading union and isn't some higher state of being. The world's not going to collapse because we've left it and there's a bunch of non-European countries who yet somehow manage to function without the EU.
The way that some present this issue as a regression into degeneracy is irritating. I don't agree with their politics but I can see how Brexiteers feel constantly patronised and demonised in equal part. Like they're the vile underbelly of British society who are holding us from enlightenment. It's all very ridiculous.
A fundamental part of any change is to accept new realities and adapt to them. I don't see the Leave vote as a wholesale rejection of European federalism, I see it as a rejection of the EU as it currently stands and a lack of faith in the possibility of any meaningful reform. Even the most ardent supporter will acknowledge the problems with the democratic structure, the problems with competing interests over FTA agreements and the problems with lack of worker economic protectionism due to free movement. You can't just dismiss these with a "yeah well it's fine because...", they're real problems with real effects that genuinely hurt people's quality of life and livelihood.
A step away from the EU isn't a step away from modernity, it's just a step away from the EU. We're just as safe and potentially prosperous as we were yesterday albeit with a slightly changed objective.
It's just a trading union.
How so? If you're threatening that your last resort is no deal, and everyone (apart from those who want no deal for their own political ends) think that would be bad, would it not be more credible as a threat if you had some idea what you could do to mitigate the effects? Without that, the EU is surely going to think that "no deal is better than a bad deal" is just rhetoric by a government that hasn't a clue how bad "no deal" could be.Spot on - his pronouncement is simply ignorance at best and deliberate sabotage of the UK's negotiating position at worst
Well at least you've got a perspective.The problem with a number of Remainers on here is that they are so desperate to shoot anything 'leave' down that they have no perspective.
.... - we need to take an uncharted course against a backdrop of a lot of uncertainty - especially due to the intransigence of the EU who have taken the UK for granted for decades are now just bitter
No, but it's not just a trading union, is it? At least, some leavers seem to be against the United States of Europe type of political union and want out to have control, protect our sovereignty, and bugger the consequences of "an uncharted course against a backdrop of uncertainty" - all we have to do is have faith and ignore the doubters. Turn to Brexit and thou shalt be saved.Well said but with regard to your closing comment:
"It's just a trading union."
Whilst I personally agree, for some on here the EU seems to be a religion
That's bizarre. Davis hasn't got a plan. He hasn't got a plan B (I'm not sure he's even got a plan A). He just knows that no deal is bad - maybe even worse than a "bad deal" (as words in brexit land seem to be losing any real meaning). Your only hope would be that he doesn't understand the meaning of "mitigate" but I'll assume that someone who uses "otiose" knows that mitigation is only needed to avoid bad effects
As for the idea that the committee didn't know whether "no deal" would be a bad thing maybe reading the report would help.
Conclusions.
47.We note the Foreign Affairs Committee’s recent conclusion that a ‘no deal’ scenario “represents a very destructive outcome leading to mutually assured damage for the EU and the UK”. We share that view. It is, therefore, very important that both the UK and the EU avoid reaching the end of the two-year negotiating period without an agreement. The Government has talked about walking away from a bad deal, but has not yet explained what terms would be demonstrably worse for the UK than ‘no deal’. The Government should therefore conduct a thorough assessment of the economic, legal and other implications of leaving the EU at the end of the Article 50 period with ‘no deal’ in place. This should be published. The public and Parliament have a right to the maximum possible information about the impact of the different future trading options being considered, including the possibility of no FTA being reached. (Paragraph 293)
48.Without an economic assessment of ‘no deal’ having been done and without evidence that steps are being taken to mitigate what would be the damaging effect of such an outcome, the Government’s assertion that “no deal is better than a bad deal”, is unsubstantiated. Parliament must be in an informed position to decide whether a proposed deal is, in fact, better or worse than ‘no deal’. (Paragraph 294)
Well said but with regard to your closing comment:
"It's just a trading union."
Whilst I personally agree, for some on here the EU seems to be a religion
Well said but with regard to your closing comment:
"It's just a trading union."
Whilst I personally agree, for some on here the EU seems to be a religion
Get help quickly.We must forget Brexit. Nanny! Nanny! I'm scared! lol
This attitude is just plain sillyCarol Malone on Sky press review:
"We are fighting for our SURVIVAL as a country" ( excuse me Carol I thought everything was in hand and under control).
This to justify the Appeaser's visit to Saudi to flog some more arms and Liam Fox's visit to the Phillipines ( oh dear where do you begin with that one).
It's all beginning to unravel now bit by bit with the Brexiters.
A couple of months ago it was all about an EU deal as good as the one we have now, "jumbo" trade deals with rest of the world from day one of Brexit, reduced immigration etc etc.
Now everything's being rowed back on.
What's going wrong Remainer May, your alt right wing needs to know otherwise they might cut up rough.
I agree, some seem to be obsessed by it.
The Remainer has repeated the same thing in Jordan today.
Some serious rowing back on promises going on already.
First we had immigration ( controlled not reduced, maybe even an increase), then no deal is not a good deal, now the EU trade deal will only be finalized after we have left i.e.not within two years as promised.
So next question is what will be the arrangements in the transitional period and how long will said transitional period last for?
The Appeaser now stating full immigration will continue during the transitional phase.
YCNMIU.
Quite a lot has happened mate regarding rowing back on commitments and promises made to the British people.To summarise, fcuk all's happened but it's enough for little Len to cream his pants in anticipation of Britain getting shafted.
Quite a lot has happened mate regarding rowing back on commitments and promises made to the British people.
You just don't want to see it.
By the way it's 'big' Len thank you ( if you know what I mean).
I have frequently asked the question of remainers as to how they actually think you can put 28 differing nations together and make it into one big country, not on here, not in the pub, do they answer...nope they will just continue to bang on about the economy and how all us Brexit voters are racists or some other bollocks that has been done more than John Inmans arse.
Above is one massive reason it wont. The EU wont budge on immigration and want to insist that Poland and Hungary take lots of new people. Rightly so of course as if you want to be in the club you have to accept the rules. Problem is if said refugees are dispatched to those countries god help them. The people in Eastern Europe wont have it simple as. They will take to the streets.
So even now with Greece about to go tits up again, the EU have 2 countries that may either be forced to leave or have serious unrest to contend with. The EU is fucked, an absolute basket case, run by idiots who have no understanding of the real world whatsoever.
I know it wont happen but if Le Penn wins in France I will laugh my bollocks off. The whole ridiculous thing could be dead in the water by the end of the year. Wonder what our Scottish neighbours would think about that?