General Election June 8th

[Metal Biker]

Definition of poverty - the state or condition of having little or no money, goods, or means of support; condition of being poor.

Second time of asking, still no alternative to capitalism.

 

[Metal Biker]

H
Hitler ,Pinochet , Franco all overthrew the old order and enforced their own version of capitalism on the population- totally undeniable?

They were dictators who imposed whatever they wished to enforce their own position. They wanted to increase wealth. Guess which was the best system to utilise to do that?

 

[bronco]

Exactly. But it's Bronco that was barking up that particularly wrong tree. So wrong in fact that it was likely to be a small hedge.

Really - explain then ? You seem a bit of a gardening expert -certainly in the manure dept

 

[Metal Biker]

Sounds like you need a decent trade union to represent you ?

As i've said before, our company does not allow nor recognise them.

 

[bronco]

Yes. It's you. And I'll leave it to the other readers to make their own minds up. Two have already corrected replies you've made to me (one a loony leftie and one a right wing nut job). So I'm clearly doing something right.

So reiterate:

• Hitler implemented Keynsian economics.
• Hitler started massive infrastructure projects.
• Hitler was economically successful using those left wing principles.
• VW were formed off the back of the state sponsored people's wagon (1934) and took their name from it when officially founded in 1937 by the Nazi Labour Group.
• Companies are allowed to be successful under socialist governments.

And perhaps you can comment on hitlers relationship with henry ford and the Mercedes organization?

 

[Metal Biker]

I'm baffled. What decision? Most of this is in the Employment Rights Act 1996 (Tory Government) with Labour amending it to allow employees to request flexible working. You'll have to cite this supposed Labour change in the law to force you to work bank holidays. It sounds like you exchanged 4 bank holidays for 5 days extra annual leave.

And it is just not true that every company reduced wages to the minimum wage. Of course that's why the CBI opposed it.

I'm still not sure how you can be working 40 hours a week and only be on £9300 a year (and not consider yourself poor).

Because i'm not working 40 hours a week.

It's shift work, meaning an average of 24 hours a week. Sometimes it's more, 32, 35 sometimes it's less, 16, 14. That was all that was on offer. I was earning a guarenteed 40 hours as a supervisor but the company decided to get rid of them. All I know is one year bank holidays were optional, the next they were mandatory, you were no longer paid time/half minimum and it was during the Labour government of Blair/Brown. I don't have to cite anything, i'm just aware of when the change in circumstance happened.

You want my circumstances? Okay. South Manchester lad from a working class south Manchester, Labour voting family. High school level education ( 9 GCSE A-C), left school to learn a trade. My rent is £250 a month, I cycle to work on days to limit the costs of owning a motorcycle and improve fitness. Insurance is low, i'm not earning enough to pay tax, my food budget is modest, I don't spend money on holidays abroad and never have, I have modest hobbies that don't cost the earth, supporting City can be done via radio, tv or internet. You think it's impossible to live on £10,000 a year? It's not, that's why I find it bizarre when people say they need food banks, or that the Tories have made life impossible for them. The major difference is that I don't have children.

I don't consider myself 'poor' because i'm not struggling. There's a lot of wants, needs and haves attitudes amongst many people today, most of the time buying expensive items they don't really need in their life but feel like they need them. The number of conversations at work where people at work complain about having no money, then when pay day comes they spend over £100 in one night boozing. Now it's up to them to spend their money however they wish, but maybe think about where that money keeps going? That's why i'm slightly suspiscious of their lifestyle choices of people who say 'I'm not earning enough'; are they of the "i want it all/keep up with the joneses" or have they just endured a run of financial bad luck, which can happen I admit. But can poverty also be attributed to poor financial choices? One lad at work takes on so many shifts, often working 14 day stretches and tiring himself out. When I asked him what position he was in that forced him to work himself ragged he replied "I want to go backpacking in America". Personal need, not necessity causes him to work so much. I'm not suggesting its the cause to dismiss their plights, I simply consider it a possibility and you can't blame governments for that.

 

[Metal Biker]

Mate I think your salary is less than the minimum wage? Full time people on minimum wage I thought earned around 13k a year.

They do, but for me It's shift work, so I get an average of 24 hours a week as it varies from between 16 hours to 32 hours when we're busy and not busy.

It's a 4-48 hour a week contract. It can be anything dependent on demand. I'm answering those people who claim people on less than that are considered "in poverty" when I manage just fine, personally, and of a staff of 100 few complain about not having enough money (usually it's complaining about not having enough money to go out drinking every week).

 

[Metal Biker]

I worked in the retail sector from the 80's (timpsons shoe repairers) and we always worked most bank holidays back then. Only guaranteed days off people got then was Sundays until the Tories changed that.

I'm not suggesting everyone everywhere always had Bank Holidays off, I just remember that in my company Bank Holidays were made mandatory from that point on. Labour were in power and if this was an accepted law, why didn't they change it to give employees the option to request not to work it like before? That was my only point.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

Bumper bundle time.

It's remarkable that the Brexiters want this election to be about Brexit and the leftie leavers want it to be about people's lives and prosperity.



I might have read it all but didn't get further than no deterioration in mail services. What? Post delivered at 2 pm? Most postboxes with a 9 am last collection plate? Post offices closed all over the place?

easily adaptable to, in a world where emails provide 99% of what we need, the post service is rightly becoming more efficient.

 

[Vic]

Paul Johnson from the IFS has said that it might not be possible to "cost" Labour's manifesto. The changes to tax, spending and borrowing are on such a scale that they would fundamentally change the economy. Some might consider that to be a good thing but it would represent a huge step into the unknown.

Last vote we had for something like that got a 52% majority.

 

[SWP's back]

And perhaps you can comment on hitlers relationship with henry ford and the Mercedes organization?

I don't think you understand socialism let alone capitalism or fascism.

I've come across you some idiots on this forum over the years but you take the biscuit. You do know that private companies are allowed under socialism.

If Corbyn came to power, that doesn't mean that Google, Apple, RBS or fucking John Lewis would be banned.

 

[bronco]

I don't think you understand socialism let alone capitalism or fascism.

I've come across you some idiots on this forum over the years but you take the biscuit. You do know that private companies are allowed under socialism.

If Corbyn came to power, that doesn't mean that Google, Apple, RBS or fucking John Lewis would be banned.

Personal abuse,the first sign of an argument loser !! Oh ....and you didn't actually answer my question - hitlers relationship with ford in particular was more than cozy

 

[mcfc1632]

All this discussion on the ability of Labour to 'bring corporations to heel' and increase tax revenues - does this have any impact on the credibility of their 'costed manifesto? is it possible that their plans to raise the necessary funding for them is not 100% guaranteed?

 

[Metal Biker]

Personal abuse,the first sign of an argument loser !! Oh ....and you didn't actually answer my question - hitlers relationship with ford in particular was more than cozy

You are aware that this is a thread about the General Election and voting intentions, discussing policies of each party manifesto?

Why are you persisiting in this 'capitalism = fascism' train of thought? Is it an attempt to be proved right about something? If so, start your own thread discussing the evils of capitalism and its supposed connection to fascism and how the two are interchangable.

 

[Metal Biker]

All this discussion on the ability of Labour to 'bring corporations to heel' and increase tax revenues - does this have any impact on the credibility of their 'costed manifesto? is it possible that their plans to raise the necessary funding for them is not 100% guaranteed?

You're forgetting the money tree.

 

[CityStu]

All this discussion on the ability of Labour to 'bring corporations to heel' and increase tax revenues - does this have any impact on the credibility of their 'costed manifesto? is it possible that their plans to raise the necessary funding for them is not 100% guaranteed?

Similar to not leaving the EU without a deal. Have they costed for a £50bn exit bill? A £100bn one? None at all? The bill for continued membership?

 

[cibaman]

Last vote we had for something like that got a 52% majority.

I suspect that people would vote for Labour's policies, IF they had any confidence that Corbyn, MCDonnell, Abbot etc would be capable of implementing them.

 

[CityStu]

I suspect that people would vote for Labour's policies, IF they had any confidence that Corbyn, MCDonnell, Abbot etc would be capable of implementing them.

And affording them.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Of

Of course the solution is to undercut the opposition but apparently turning the UK into an offshore version of Luxembourg is an affront to the EU, and Labour.

Plus the fact that Luxembourg, the fiefdom of that delightful chap Juncker, is a fully functioning member of
the EU, and is the go-to destination for all tax avoiders and companies with less than savoury record of tax payments.
So the EU doesn't mind at all having a dodgy member that encourages and rewards tax avoidance, and meanwhile,
Labours manifesto boldly states that they're going to clamp down on it, to fund a goody list dreamt up by throwing
billions of this mythical cash at everything.

 

[bronco]

You are aware that this is a thread about the General Election and voting intentions, discussing policies of each party manifesto?

Why are you persisiting in this 'capitalism = fascism' train of thought? Is it an attempt to be proved right about something? If so, start your own thread discussing the evils of capitalism and its supposed connection to fascism and how the two are interchangable.

It was brought up yesterday with an equally absurd claim - have you not been paying attention?