General Election June 8th

[Damocles]

Foolish boy every word was made up at some point.

Yes that was the joke which I was making.

 

[hilts]

Spot on, the right don't make political points with it, they simply ignore it, and if you do hold their feet to fire, they argue about the terms of reference in order to belittle it, not unlike you're doing now.

Unlike you I don't see it as a competition between left and right. It's a shit term and the fact we are arguing that simple point only enforces my view.

 

[hilts]

Yes that was the joke which I was making.

In that case I humbly apologise

 

[The perfect fumble]

Unlike you I don't see it as a competition between left and right. It's a shit term and the fact we are arguing that simple point only enforces my view.

Only on the right does the terms of reference rubbish the argument. Can you not see that is deliberate?

 

[hilts]

Only on the right does the terms of reference rubbish the argument. Can you not see that is deliberate?

It's not deliberate the term poverty gets used even without the relative part a lot on here, and even if it's used a lot of people will make the wrong conclusion. Even honest balaclava man himself throws the word poverty around like confetti. You know and so do I that the word throws up images for people so two things tend to happen.

Some get all worked up about kids living in what they understand as poverty or people laugh at it. Either one is not very constructive.

 

[The perfect fumble]

It's not deliberate the term poverty gets used even without the relative part a lot on here, and even if it's used a lot of people will make the wrong conclusion. Even honest balaclava man himself throws the word poverty around like confetti. You know and so do I that the word throws up images for people so two things tend to happen.

Some get all worked up about kids living in what they understand as poverty or people laugh at it. Either one is not very constructive.

But this confusion is quite deliberate, it is generated by the right to muddy the waters. We could talk all day about absolute poverty, relative poverty, a deprivation index, income inequality, life chances, happiness index, social mobility, or whether poverty exists at all.

But it's noises off deliberately generated in order to ensure that nothing gets done.

 

[hilts]

But this confusion is quite deliberate, it is generated by the right to muddy the waters. We could talk all day about absolute poverty, relative poverty, a deprivation index, income inequality, life chances, happiness index, social mobility, or whether poverty exists at all.

But it's noises off deliberately generated in order to ensure that nothing gets done.

Unsurprisingly I disagree. Absolute poverty in this country would be something to eradicate. Relative poverty not so much. I think relative poverty is impossible to get rid of. A lot of these people you are trying to save don't think they need saving. Is there any country in the history of the world that doesn't have relative poverty? Who decided the mechanism to work out the figure?

 

[Len Rum]

It's probably been the worst Tory campaign in history to be honest but the though of Corbyn as PM has made me rethink my position on Swiss citizenship which until now I have staunchly refused to entertain.

The labour manifesto is just a fantasy wish list which is completely unaffordable and he's an IRA sympathiser no matter how much he lies about it. Diane Abbott shouldn't be anywhere near government and John McDonnell can honour the fucking IRA by blowing himself up as far as I'm concerned.

Both my kids are voting and were both leaning towards Tory but are both now wondering what to do with their vote and frankly I've advised them to vote for none of the above.

No need to be a drama queen mate. Despite Jezza running a good campaign and May being shown to be weak and inept, Corbyn won't win ( two years chaotic opposition and his past have seen to that).
So no need for that Swiss citizenship,take up yodeling instead. You know it makes sense.

 

[shemnel]

Whatever your political persuasion, Michael Fallon on channel 4 highlights nicely how far removed political narrative/campaigning is from objective reality.

 

[Ric]

Unlike you I don't see it as a competition between left and right.

It's to your eternal credit that you manage to rise above that.

Relative poverty is a nonsense but it does give the left something to moan about.

A term made up in social science that the left use for political gain. Utter horseshit.

The way it has been used in this thread shows it isn't a great term but that won't stop a couple of lefties trying to make a political point out of it.

 

[hilts]

Whatever your political persuasion, Michael Fallon on channel 4 highlights nicely how far removed political narrative/campaigning is from objective reality.

Haha he certainly walked into that one

 

[hilts]

It's to your eternal credit that you manage to rise above that.

Because in this instance poverty is being spouted by the left on here. I have already stated that May is a daft woman classy guy that I am and that I can't vote for the Tories.

I have a particular dislike of corbyn because he is lauded by some as an honest politician, he isn't close. The Tories are the same as they have always been, there isn't much new to discuss about them. I thought Cameron may have shown a softer side, alas he didn't

 

[Ricster]

I've just read that May has said there is no link between foreign policy and terrorism? She will be telling us next there is no tomatoes in tomato soup.

And people still want her to run this country?
Cuts of the police force after the worst terror attack in years.
Closing of NHS hospitals.
Social care scandal.
The NI u-turn in the budget.

She is as incompetent as Gordon Brown

 

[Ric]

Because in this instance poverty is being spouted by the left on here.

With the greatest respect, it's hardly likely to be spouted by the right on here.

 

[The perfect fumble]

It's to your eternal credit that you manage to rise above that.

So true.

To his credit he's held back from talking about the deserving and undeserving poor, so there may be hope for him yet.

 

[hilts]

With the greatest respect, it's hardly likely to be spouted by the right on here.

It is hardly likely to be spouted by any sitting government left or right. As we all know a manifesto by any opposition party is pretty easy. Take the 10 quid minimum wage. Fabulous idea on paper but doomed to failure like tax credits. As an ideal the labour manifesto is hard to disagree with but too many think it's not realistic.

 

[Ric]

It is hardly likely to be spouted by any sitting government left or right. As we all know a manifesto by any opposition party is pretty easy. Take the 10 quid minimum wage. Fabulous idea on paper but doomed to failure like tax credits. As an ideal the labour manifesto is hard to disagree with but too many think it's not realistic.

True mate, but personally I'm willing to take a gamble on an idealistic manifesto as opposed to the harsh realities of the current regime.

 

[hilts]

So true.

To his credit he's held back from talking about the deserving and undeserving poor, so there may be hope for him yet.

As I have said in another thread happy clappers are of no use in any debate. Your opinions are set in stone, you will not change so why converse. This thread would have the same posters mainly as the last general election. We don't have a paralell universe to compare so none of us will ever be proven right.

If you look at the Iraq debacle and how the right slates Blair for it in what world can they get away with that shit? They do though. We have a policy from the Tories on social care which is a labour type policy all day long. What do labour do? Stick up for rich folk. Why? Just because the Tories came up with it. There are no winners here folks.

 

[hilts]

True mate, but personally I'm willing to take a gamble on an idealistic manifesto as opposed to the harsh realities of the current regime.

The problem is the voters who have the power are doing fine so they won't gamble. Politically we are in a very strange place.

 

[Ric]

We have a policy from the Tories on social care which is a labour type policy all day long

That's a bit disingenuous.