General Election June 8th

[Cheesy]

He thinks that giving millions of people a 30% pay rise can be offset to small business by rate cuts. He has basically just read somewhere that the labour manifesto has been costed and accepted it because it suits his la la land view of socialism.

Absolutely. I hadn't even touched on the implications of raising the minimum wage yet. As things stand, I am thinking of taking on my first employee. This will be an almighty struggle as it is and will mean my profits will take a huge hit (I own a micro-business that's just moving into an OK profit after 3 years). I'm prepared to do this though as it's the only way I can grow the business. A minimum wage of £10/hour would mean I have to pay someone an extra (approx) £4000 per year and that's something I just can't do. So, if Labour get in, that's my buinsess growth stunted and one less person in full-time employment.

 

[SWP's back]

When your heroine was prime minister, corporate tax was 52%. Over her decade in power that reduced to 35%. The current USA rate is 39%, UAE 55%, India 34%, France 34%, Japan, Australia and Germany 30%. But in the UK it is 17%m raising it will be detrimental and all the companies will 'relocate'. Where are they going to?

Ireland at 12.5% with the added bonus of being within the EU.

 

[Chippy_boy]

It outstripped the UK marginally in two of the last seven quarters. And only once in the last year, by 0.3%

Quite so. To suggest that "Our growth is below the EU average currently and probably weakening" is to misrepresent and mislead, either deliberately or unintentionally. Not to mention that there is no evidence of any correlation of this with levels of public spending, which is his actual - poorly made - argument.

 

[hilts]

Absolutely. I hadn't even touched on the implications of raising the minimum wage yet. As things stand, I am thinking of taking on my first employee. This will be an almighty struggle as it is and will mean my profits will take a huge hit (I own a micro-business that's just moving into an OK profit after 3 years). I'm prepared to do this though as it's the only way I can grow the business. A minimum wage of £10/hour would mean I have to pay someone an extra (approx) £4000 per year and that's something I just can't do. So, if Labour get in, that's my buinsess growth stunted and one less person in full-time employment.

People haven't really Discussed the repercussions of this much which is strange

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

You keep mentioning record levels of debt and yet:

You're aware that GDP has been rising for the last five years. You're aware there are less people on benefits than five years ago. You're aware there are more people in work than five years ago. You are however suggesting that we should borrow a fuck load more and increase the deficit rather than reduce it.

You want your cake and to eat it.

Current UK government yields are at historically very low levels and borrowing is dirt cheap. Why wouldn't you borrow now, at these rates?

 

[Chippy_boy]

Ireland at 12.5% with the added bonus of being within the EU.

We've already had this discussion, and if I recall there are around 50 countries with lower corporation tax rates than ours and perhaps 10 in the EU. If we consider how many there are with rates below Labour's suggested 27%, it's many, many more than that.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Ireland at 12.5% with the added bonus of being within the EU.

So why haven't they already gone? I have heard that people will be leaving, the best talent, the best companies for forty years and yet they're still here....

 

[Chippy_boy]

Current UK government yields are at historically very low levels and borrowing is dirt cheap. Why wouldn't you borrow now, at these rates?

Because if (when) rates go up the interest burden would be crippling.

 

[hilts]

Current UK government yields are at historically very low levels and borrowing is dirt cheap. Why wouldn't you borrow now, at these rates?

Borrowing is borrowing which we are doing shit loads of anyway. You still have to pay it back. Is there no limit to what you think we should borrow?

 

[Chippy_boy]

So why haven't they already gone? I have heard that people will be leaving, the best talent, the best companies for forty years and yet they're still here....

For now. Do you not think a hard Brexit will cause some businesses to review their strategies? Do you think unilaterally raising corporation tax to 27% is a great idea when the European average is 20% (or thereabouts) and businesses are thinking about relocating inside the EU to remain in the customs union? Do you *honestly* think this is a good idea, because if you do, that's pretty weird.

 

[Cheesy]

People haven't really Discussed the repercussions of this much which is strange

Because if you question it you're seen as an evil employer who probably wants to return to the days of the workhouse.

 

[Chippy_boy]

When your heroine was prime minister, corporate tax was 52%. Over her decade in power that reduced to 35%. The current USA rate is 39%, UAE 55%, India 34%, France 34%, Japan, Australia and Germany 30%. But in the UK it is 17%m raising it will be detrimental and all the companies will 'relocate'. Where are they going to?

I missed your post. It's 19% in the UK right now. The US is actually 40% btw.

Off the top of my head, Ireland, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Hungary, Romania, Serbia.

Let me turn your question 180 degrees around:

The UK has a significant skills shortage. It has productivity levels way below that of other major economies. It faces a period of sustained turmoil and uncertainty over Brexit.

Why on earth, would a foreign company wishing to sell goods to 500m European consumers, wish to remain in the UK in order to pay 27% corporation tax, and face considerable import and export "friction" (at best, tariffs at worst), difficulties hiring people etc; when they could move to alternative EU country - say Ireland - and pay 12.5%?

Why would they stay? The weather? The pies?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Absolutely. I hadn't even touched on the implications of raising the minimum wage yet. As things stand, I am thinking of taking on my first employee. This will be an almighty struggle as it is and will mean my profits will take a huge hit (I own a micro-business that's just moving into an OK profit after 3 years). I'm prepared to do this though as it's the only way I can grow the business. A minimum wage of £10/hour would mean I have to pay someone an extra (approx) £4000 per year and that's something I just can't do. So, if Labour get in, that's my buinsess growth stunted and one less person in full-time employment.

The repercussions of raising the minimum wage by such a massive percentage would be wide ranging.
It's very easy to throw out supposed goodies like this, but the vast majority of the wealth created comes
from the myriad small businesses like yours. Labour always views business as some exploitative entity, run by
grasping bastards that can well afford to pay for any amount of public spending, I'm sure your intention to avoid
employing people would be mirrored throughout the country, with catastrophic results.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

For now. Do you not think a hard Brexit will cause some businesses to review their strategies? Do you think unilaterally raising corporation tax to 27% is a great idea when the European average is 20% (or thereabouts) and businesses are thinking about relocating inside the EU to remain in the customs union? Do you *honestly* think this is a good idea, because if you do, that's pretty weird.

The European average is 20%? Only if you count countries ending in IA, Ireland and Cyprus. The countries most comparable to ours, have an average rate of over 26%.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

I missed your post. It's 19% in the UK right now. The US is actually 40% btw.

Off the top of my head, Ireland, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Hungary, Romania, Serbia.

So why haven't they already gone? The USA is 38.9% btw.

 

[hilts]

The repercussions of raising the minimum wage by such a massive percentage would be wide ranging.
It's very easy to throw out supposed goodies like this, but the vast majority of the wealth created comes
from the myriad small businesses like yours. Labour always views business as some exploitative entity, run by
grasping bastards that can well afford to pay for any amount of public spending, I'm sure your intention to avoid
employing people would be mirrored throughout the country, with catastrophic results.

You only need to see mcdonnells interview with Andrew Neil to see labours ideology over common sense in regards to business.

 

[Cheesy]

The repercussions of raising the minimum wage by such a massive percentage would be wide ranging.
It's very easy to throw out supposed goodies like this, but the vast majority of the wealth created comes
from the myriad small businesses like yours. Labour always views business as some exploitative entity, run by
grasping bastards that can well afford to pay for any amount of public spending, I'm sure your intention to avoid
employing people would be mirrored throughout the country, with catastrophic results.

It would mate. For 3 years I've owned my own business. In those three years I have earned approx £10000.00 per year and that is with an Armed Forces pension included. That's right, £10000.00. Fucking rich bastard business owners, eh?

The reason why is because I want to work for myself and I believe that in future I'll have a really good, profitable business that will allow me to live fairly comfortably. However, to do that I need to grow the business and I can only do that if I can afford to take on employees and to be allowed to make a decent profit without paying excessive Corporation Tax on it.

 

[SWP's back]

Current UK government yields are at historically very low levels and borrowing is dirt cheap. Why wouldn't you borrow now, at these rates?

And they are doing as we keep hearing "the Tories have borrowed more than every previous Labour government combined"

So which is it?

 

[Damocles]

Mod note: There's some really good discussion going on in this thread, but also a lot of people getting a bit heated. Please try and take a breath because it's interesting reading and would be a shame to start splitting it up.

 

[Chippy_boy]

So why haven't they already gone? The USA is 38.9% btw.

The reason they haven't already gone is because at 19%, the rate is sufficiently low to not make it worth leaving, and we are in the EU. Once we are not in the EU, that situation changes dramatically.

BTW the rate in the US is 40%.
From KPMG:

The corporate income tax rate <in the US> is approximately 40%. The marginal federal corporate income tax rate on the highest income bracket of corporations (currently above USD 18,333,333) is 35%. State and local governments may also impose income taxes ranging from 0% to 12%, the top marginal rates averaging approximately 7.5%. A corporation may deduct its state and local income tax expense when computing its federal taxable income, generally resulting in a net effective rate of approximately 40%.