I'm sorry, what? Doesn't that make Churchill, Montgomery, etc "working class"? Do you think the British Union of Fascists was mostly toffs? What an odd and erroneous generalization!
Here's the clue: The Daily Mail supported the fascists, and Brexit.
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Here's the clue: The Daily Mail supported the fascists, and Brexit.
Metal Biker
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Well the predominantely EU, remain, left-wing, Labour supporting Daily Mirror had a few kind words to say about the BUoF, too. In fact most Nazis in the German general public were known to be Middle Class, business owners. Cecil King was even an admirer of Mosely, back in the day. So what's your point here?I'm sorry, what? Doesn't that make Churchill, Montgomery, etc "working class"? Do you think the British Union of Fascists was mostly toffs? What an odd and erroneous generalization!
Here's the clue: The Daily Mail supported the fascists, and Brexit.
kevin horlocks wand
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I'm sorry, what? Doesn't that make Churchill, Montgomery, etc "working class"? Do you think the British Union of Fascists was mostly toffs? What an odd and erroneous generalization!
Here's the clue: The Daily Mail supported the fascists, and Brexit.
Why is this thread so obsessed with the daily mail.
We get it daily mail - bad made up shit. guardian - the oracle and true
Btw don't read either
gordondaviesmoustache
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Based on what?In fact most Nazis in the German general public were known to be Middle Class, business owners.
vonkeynotvenky
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Why is this thread so obsessed with the daily mail.
We get it daily mail - bad made up shit. guardian - the oracle and true
Btw don't read either
When all else fails throw in a Daily Mail a Donald Trump or a hate the Tories post ;)
Metal Biker
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You never watched The World at War? WWII: A documentary?Based on what?
Business owners in Germany soon after the Great Depression turned to the Nazis who sought to 'give back their businesses'. Their simple notion of 'Work and Bread' appealed to the masses in the early years, but they were not the demographic they wanted to gain the most support from. Nazi support came mostly from business owners, the Mittlestand, middle classes and the wealthy.
Wait did you think National Socialism was a working class movement?
gordondaviesmoustache
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I did watch the World at War; narrated by Laurence Olivier, won a load of Golden Globes.You never watched The World at War? WWII: A documentary?
Business owners in Germany soon after the Great Depression turned to the Nazis who sought to 'give back their businesses'. Their simple notion of 'Work and Bread' appealed to the masses in the early years, but they were not the demographic they wanted to gain the most support from. Nazi support came mostly from business owners, the Mittlestand, middle classes and the wealthy.
Wait did you think National Socialism was a working class movement?
I accept the middle classes formed the backbone of the Nazis support, but the majority? I doubt whether the middle classes accounted for 25% of the German population in 1933, on which basis your sums cannot add up.
Metal Biker
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No you're just twisting it to have 'majority' to mean a simple numbers game, whereas i'm referring to the influence of the middle classes as a whole. The Middle Classes of German society was the embodiment of the Nazi movement and it's its middle class identity that carried it to the lofty heights it achieved. None of that was down to, influenced by or carried by the working classes of German society.I did watch the World at War; narrated by Laurence Olivier, won a load of Golden Globes.
I accept the middle classes formed the backbone of the Nazis support, but the majority? I doubt whether the middle classes accounted for 25% of the German population in 1933, on which basis your sums cannot add up.
Example, the Red October Revolution isn't seen as a Middle Class movement, is it. Nazism was formed by members of the middle classes, by the middle classes and for the middle classes.
gordondaviesmoustache
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I'm not twisting anything. 'Most' was your choice of word. It's not a word that carries the ambiguity that you suggest, especially in a political context. You're an articulate poster. If you'd wished to convey something different you were perfectly at liberty to so do.No you're just twisting it to have 'majority' to mean a simple numbers game, whereas i'm referring to the influence of the middle classes as a whole.
Metal Biker
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It does if you think outside the box more.I'm not twisting anything. 'Most' was your choice of word. It's not a word that carries the ambiguity that you suggest, especially in a political context. You're an articulate poster. If you'd wished to convey something different you were perfectly at liberty to so do.
'most' important, 'most' influential, 'most' members. The 'most' Nazis were Middle Class, business owners. Most passionate and most dedicated. That's what I was trying to convey.
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gordondaviesmoustache
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'Most important' and 'most influential' are not analogous to what you posted, which was:It does if you think outside the box more.
'most' important, 'most' influential, 'most' members. The 'most' Nazis were Middle Class, business owners.
In fact most Nazis in the German general public were known to be Middle Class, business owners.
Which is demonstrably making a quanititve assertion.
Metal Biker
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Apologies if that is how you read it, certainly wasn't my intention. in the context of my response to the OP (who i believe was making some connection between working class sentiments on Brexit to be similar to the habits of those who read a certain newspaper that is well know to have shown support and advocacy of facist and nazi gorups) i was pointing out that Nazism was in fact more heavily supported by those of a middle class background than masses were.'Most important' and 'most influential' are not analogous to what you posted, which was:
Which is demonstrably making a quanititve assertion.
gordondaviesmoustache
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Absolutely no need to apologise, mate.Apologies if that is how you read it, certainly wasn't my intention. in the context of my response to the OP (who i believe was making some connection between working class sentiments on Brexit to be similar to the habits of those who read a certain newspaper that is well know to have shown support and advocacy of facist and nazi gorups) i was pointing out that Nazism was in fact more heavily supported by those of a middle class background than masses were.
I'm sorry, what? Doesn't that make Churchill, Montgomery, etc "working class"? Do you think the British Union of Fascists was mostly toffs? What an odd and erroneous generalization!
Here's the clue: The Daily Mail supported the fascists, and Brexit.
If you look at who was in the British armed services (you know the ones that actually did the fighting and dying) they were working class.
The 'elites' were the ones such as lord Halifax that wanted to appease.
i kne albert davy
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As there's more of us working class people obviously more fight and die, but the officer classes did their share of dying in both World wars, especially the first one.If you look at who was in the British armed services (you know the ones that actually did the fighting and dying) they were working class.
The 'elites' were the ones such as lord Halifax that wanted to appease.
As there's more of us working class people obviously more fight and die, but the officer classes did their share of dying in both World wars, especially the first one.
Or the "war of the aristocratic cousins" as it should be more properly known (WW1)
i kne albert davy
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Not to sure about that to be honest.Or the "war of the aristocratic cousins" as it should be more properly known (WW1)
No one has heard of it because it's not true. He needs to read a bit of AJP Taylor.Not to sure about that to be honest.
Anyway, I guess we've established that the idea that the British working class deserve to wreck their class's life chances by voting for Brexit because they "single handedly stood up to fascism" was just a bit of nonsense.
I suppose union leaders who didn't support strikes in the early 50s against negroes getting promotion were "elites" and not proper working class.
I suppose union leaders who didn't support strikes in the early 50s against negroes getting promotion were "elites" and not proper working class.
Where do you get the idea that the working class in the Thirties opposed appeasement?If you look at who was in the British armed services (you know the ones that actually did the fighting and dying) they were working class.
The 'elites' were the ones such as lord Halifax that wanted to appease.
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