Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[hgblue]

Fuck that. We will have WTO.
And by the way, france exports fuck all to Canada so If Macron wants the same with the UK he's going to have to find somewhere else to offload 35 billion Euros of cheese and wine.

Tres bien mon ami ;)

 

[Len Rum]

What Brexit negotiations?
May is like a broken Maggie doll "strong and stable" Nero fiddling while Rome burns more like, as she grinds the NHS into dust, dissolves our civil liberties, victimises the poor and the disabled, gives the go ahead for fracking, runs up an even bigger national debt, oversees the rise in child poverty.
She harps on about being strong in negotiations with Europe, but she has a worthless hand, Europe hold all the aces and will royally screw us.
She is an unelected leader who was a Remainer before Cameron set this shitstorm into motion, she's fucking clueless and way out of her depth, repeating the same senseless mantra of "strong and stable"
That anybody from a working class background should vote Tory is a fucking disgrace.
You only have to look to the 80's to see what Maggie was trying to do to the working class, May is doing the same. Nurses using food banks! Are not disgusted? Wake the fuck up, because it's going to get worse under May as she stumbles blindly through Brexit, lying through her teeth, avoiding tv debates, organising her own clandestine meetings with carefully assembled audiences.
The right wing owned media keep pumping out the Tory propaganda, and the public blindly accept it

Her latest 'Con' is the reduction in net immigration to a level which she "believes" should be tens of thousands. This is totally unachievable and she has failed to meet this target over the last seven years on non EU migration alone which the Govt can control!
Was asked if this "target" or "aspiration" or whatever would be achieved by 2025 and wouldn't answer.
There was some Tory on sky news who defended it by saying she had no option to still defend this "target" ( or aspiration or whatever) and she would be grilled on it in interviews and would come out badly but she would get away with it because Labour was so weak.
Just about sums up this election really.

 

[mcfc1632]

What Brexit negotiations?
May is like a broken Maggie doll "strong and stable" Nero fiddling while Rome burns more like, as she grinds the NHS into dust, dissolves our civil liberties, victimises the poor and the disabled, gives the go ahead for fracking, runs up an even bigger national debt, oversees the rise in child poverty.
She harps on about being strong in negotiations with Europe, but she has a worthless hand, Europe hold all the aces and will royally screw us.
She is an unelected leader who was a Remainer before Cameron set this shitstorm into motion, she's fucking clueless and way out of her depth, repeating the same senseless mantra of "strong and stable"
That anybody from a working class background should vote Tory is a fucking disgrace.
You only have to look to the 80's to see what Maggie was trying to do to the working class, May is doing the same. Nurses using food banks! Are not disgusted? Wake the fuck up, because it's going to get worse under May as she stumbles blindly through Brexit, lying through her teeth, avoiding tv debates, organising her own clandestine meetings with carefully assembled audiences.
The right wing owned media keep pumping out the Tory propaganda, and the public blindly accept it

A lot of that just sounds like ranting, but trying to pick out some points:

1. "She is an unelected leader............" well you must be delighted that she called an election then - She will either be gone or she will be an elected leader

2. "............she has a worthless hand, Europe hold all the aces and will royally screw us." Well fair play then - if she gets anything more than us being totally screwed I am sure that you will be right up there at the front applauding???

3. "That anybody from a working class background should vote Tory is a fucking disgrace." - They should respect your views - should you not respect theirs?

4. "You only have to look to the 80's to see what Maggie was trying to do to the working class,"....?? What is that to do with the UK's current situation???

I think that makes sense of it?? Or as much as is possible??

 

[Ancient Citizen]

The right wing owned media keep pumping out the Tory propaganda, and the public blindly accept it

It's frustrating isn't it? I saw a bloke sitting on a bench in the sunshine and he was reading the Daily Mail!!

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

There's a good letter in the DT this morning outlining residual assets to which we have a claim that can be used to offset any continuing liability we might have had whilst still a member of that pile of shite. It simply shows that any figure that the Federalists in Europe are coming up with is pure fiscal delusion.

 

[mcfc1632]

What it is mate I'm hacked off with discussing 'no deal' scenarios because despite the bullshit I still have some faith that the UK and the EU will not go down a mutually destructive path where there are no winners only losers . You can argue who loses the most and yes that could affect the dynamics of the negotiations, but ultimately I still think there will be a compromise deal where both sides will be able to claim 'success '.

I want to move the debate on so this post is not meant to be a 'pop at you', but I would suggest that if you were able to look at this post from my point of view I would hope that you would see a good degree of inconsistency. You say that you are hacked off:

"..............discussing 'no deal' scenarios because despite the bullshit I still have some faith that the UK and the EU will not go down a mutually destructive path where there are no winners only losers"

The way you put it across it sounds as if it is the Leave side that has been going on and on about 'no deal' forcing you to take part in such discussions. For me this is a little disingenuous - again that word can seem like an insult and I do not mean it so bluntly - let's call it unconsciously disingenuous.

Yes it is true that I have most certainly been saying - repeatedly - since September that for there to be a successful negotiating outcome it will likely be essential that we get to a position where be have a viable walk-away option. So in this sense you are right - but I would suggest that you have not really taken part in discussing 'no deal' scenarios. It has felt as if fumble yourself and others have done nothing other than restate the strength of the EU's position as if they are oh so mighty and should be fawned upon. There has felt like a sense of 'glee' - less by yourself I admit - in stating just how we (the UK) need to kow-tow and know our place.

But I have been equally clear that until that walk-away option was to become available - and for that to happen there has been a need to defeat all the machinations at Westminster, and address the games of Blair, Clegg, Mandelson et al and I would say also to call this election - all the negotiating power would reside with the EU. It has been clear that because of their arrogant and self-serving attitudes that if they continue to hold the balance of negotiating power then they would seek to make sure that it was a massive Win for the EU and massive loss for the UK outcome.

So for me you have not been discussing 'no deal' scenarios at all - just part (albeit a more moderate part) of the cadre that wants to shout down the views of those that put forward that to achieve the best outcome for the UK then we need to get the EU to come down from their lofty and arrogant stance and start to negotiate with some genuineness. To achieve that we have needed to have available both a viable walk-away option and the strength of leadership that ensures that the EU realises that if they just continue to take the total piss - then we may invoke it.

For me - having been on the receiving end of a lot of your posts - not only have you not at all been discussing no deal scenarios - you have been just regurgitating lots of reasons that we should all accept that there is no available outcome other than that of EU supremacy.

 

[mcfc1632]

Len, to continue that, I would say - I guess you may think that I would - that I have since June been proven correct about how things would unfold. Whilst I have been very nervous until recently that the referendum decision to leave would get undermined by the self-serving machinations in Westminster, I feel much more confident now than at any point previously that indeed we will leave and that it can be a Win - Win outcome. At the very least now, assuming that May goes get an increased majority, there exists the negotiating conditions that mean both parties can be motivated to reach a common agreement rather than one where one party, the EU, is determined to demonstrate that they are the clear winner - and that the UK has been punished and let that be a lessons to the other 27.

Recent weeks has seen evidence that the EU leaders are starting to be a little less arrogant - even a bit irritated - perhaps actually a bit anxious/nervous - and the trend is towards a stronger UK position. Very soon, post 08/06, we will be able to engage in the negotiations with the EU side having to now take stock and realise that all the 'ultra-confidence' that they had some months ago and which led to their 100% EU Win mandate is perhaps not so well-founded as they had thought.

I have pointed out that there is evidence that the Unity shown by the EU27 that has been orchestrated and based on all the assurances from the EC that it will be an EU walk-over is starting to become fractured. I predict that we will see those fractures increase and the EU's total win mandate change.

IMO, the time is now that you might want to engage less in explaining why the 23/06 referendum decision was oh so wrong and start to take part in discussions on the possible 'deal scenarios' - not just a no-deal one - and I will put out a separate post to invite us all to do that so we can move the debate on. The thread is after all supposed to be about the negotiations.

 

[jonmcity]

We will get no deal. just pull out and deal with the consequences. I would stop all payments now to the EU. We will need the cash to pay for the ensuing unemployment this will cause.

 

[Monkfish]

We will get no deal. just pull out and deal with the consequences. I would stop all payments now to the EU. We will need the cash to pay for the ensuing unemployment this will cause.

finally someone talks sense, I would like to add that if we invade Norway at the same time and take their oil we wont even need need the cash for the unemployed, only thing stopping us is the politically correct loonies with their so called 'morals'

 

[jonmcity]

finally someone talks sense, I would like to add that if we invade Norway at the same time and take their oil we wont even need need the cash for the unemployed, only thing stopping us is the politically correct loonies with their so called 'morals'

We would need a Navy and an Army for that, we have neither.