Ilkay Gundogan - 2017/18 performances

[MarsLlama]

I didn't think we were looking at anyone similar to Gundogan. Beyond Modric, Kroos, Veratti, possibly Milinkovic-Savic who's really an upgrade?

Lingard? Henderson? Don't you watch football focus?

 

[Neville Kneville]

You ok?

Relative very ill mate. I'm fine thanks.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Anyway, just so we are clear, Pep disagrees with this opinion. But feel free to carry on :-)

Don't care.

Gundogan v Arsenal was not the kind of thing Pep wants, whetever he's told you.

He was a lot more alert v Chelsea, which is a good sign.

I don't think he will end up as a main player as oringinally ntended though. I don't think he's able to move as he used to & it's some time now since his last injury.

European games have suited him better so far imo & Chelsea were a bit like that. But if it's Liverpool we draw, he has a problem.

 

[geoff clipp]

There is no fall, Fernandinho & Gundogan will compete for 1 position, and both of them are good enough to fill it.

Fernandinho is 33 in two months. He's played a lot of minutes for us this season and is off to the world cup in the summer. It's hard to believe he'll play as much next season as he has this. I really like Gundogan and he can do a job filling in there against some teams but this is not his best position and that combined with his injury record makes it a massive risk to go into next season with just those two covering such an important position. Fernandinho's long term successor will need to be a bit more robust that someone like Gundogan. We've failed to plan ahead in the past with regards to an ageing squad but hopefully lessons have been learned. Fernandinho's long term replacement should be brought in this summer and given time to adapt in the same way Bernardo Silva has been brought in with a long term view to potentially replacing David Silva.

 

[Rolee]

Don't care.

Gundogan v Arsenal was not the kind of thing Pep wants, whetever he's told you.

He was a lot more alert v Chelsea, which is a good sign.

I don't think he will end up as a main player as oringinally ntended though. I don't think he's able to move as he used to & it's some time now since his last injury.

European games have suited him better so far imo & Chelsea were a bit like that. But if it's Liverpool we draw, he has a problem.

Not too sure about that, Gundo is much more comfortable when pressed than Dinho is, granted his recovery isn't near Dinho's level but it was the press where we struggled against Liverpool.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Not too sure about that, Gundo is much more comfortable when pressed than Dinho is, granted his recovery isn't near Dinho's level but it was the press where we struggled against Liverpool.

It was, but vs Liverpool City struggled where they normally wouldn't.

We would normally prefer if a team pressed us like that, just knock it round them & bugger off up the pitch. But we passed it like shit & Fern, Stones etc looked completely knackered on the day.

Looking at Gundogan yesterday, I thought he looked much much better in tight situations & much more alert to playing an intelligent pass, rather than just passing randomly, but when Chelsea did get a run on us, he was way off the pace getting back into any position where he could contribute. Chelsea failed to take any advantage. We have seen that as a general trait in his play imo, even vs Leicester, & imo, when he was at Dortmund, he had an extra couple of yards in him, to at least cause a player to alter his run & delay a move.

I think we will be looking for players who are absolutely exceptional at certain aspect of the game, & that aspect may become very important as teams try to work out how to stop us & hurt us.

 

[fatbloke]

I understand that. However, many of the players, not just Gundogan, were passing between themselves today for nothing but shits and giggles so the records with regards to it are a bit meh just.

Shits and giggles, really?

Those short passes between two players are very intentional and provocative to try and frustrate the opposition players into individual pressing and breaking their tactical shape. We use a very similar ploy with Ederson, giving opposition teams hope they can catch us out because goalkeepers are usually poor in possession and unable to play out as comfortably as our Eddie.

 

[Divino da Guia]

Two things:
1 - Gundogan can play as DM in 90% of the games because we will only attack. In fact i suspect would be better to have him as DM in the vast majority of league games, even against some top sides.

2 - I dont think we should see him as long term DM, especially in Champions League games. I dont want him defending against Barca or Madrid.

 

[SWP's back]

Shits and giggles, really?

Those short passes between two players are very intentional and provocative to try and frustrate the opposition players into individual pressing and breaking their tactical shape. We use a very similar ploy with Ederson, giving opposition teams hope they can catch us out because goalkeepers are usually poor in possession and unable to play out as comfortably as our Eddie.

Well said.

 

[OB1]

Well, I was quite impressed that Gundogan set a new passing record. I very much enjoyed his performance yesterday, it reminded me of Yaya in the way he moved to available to his team mates. 96% pass completion on that many passes is quite something, in any circumstances and one of his incomplete passes actually helped change the game.

He was also our top ball winner yesterday.

Unspectacular but highly effective.

 

[Otamendi's Beard]

A quality midfielder who will continue to improve the longer he can avoid (serious) injury.

I thought he played well against Arsenal on Thurs and continued with a solid performance yesterday. He even threw in a couple of dirty tackles which was a bonus.

 

[Mike D]

As what happened to Fernandinho I can see Gundogan ending up making his current role his own. We are going to strengthen with Fred in the summer and Pep likes to have his 2 players for every position.

 

[Manchester_lalala]

There is a reason the heavy passing is kept to the left of the field.

We’ve got a possession wing, which if the left wing and a direct wing which is the right wing. Endless amount of times we see David, Leroy, Sergio, Zinchenko/Delph, Fernandinho keep the ball down that left side. The right wing is just for kevs crosses.

 

[John Oliver]

In case you haven’t seen it, there is an interesting 16 minute video on the Man City site showing Gundo’s every touch against Chelsea.

It showed he can play very well when there is not much defending to be done, but I’m not sure how well he could give defensive cover when the heat is on.

 

[FantasyIreland]

In case you haven’t seen it, there is an interesting 16 minute video on the Man City site showing Gundo’s every touch against Chelsea.

It showed he can play very well when there is not much defending to be done, but I’m not sure how well he could give defensive cover when the heat is on.

I think that's a concern one or two of us share.Hopefully as he regains confidence he can show more of his defensive capability.

 

[eversince 76]

I think that's a concern one or two of us share.Hopefully as he regains confidence he can show more of his defensive capability.

If Gundogan as a DM make us tick better, therefore create more chances and we score more goals, Pep won’t make any issue of the players defensive inability. If there is one, as I think many on here just want to see a tackling kinda DM. If Fred is supposed to come in as another DM, it’ll be more of the Gundogan ilks rather than the Fernandinho ones.

 

[Delphacito]

In case you haven’t seen it, there is an interesting 16 minute video on the Man City site showing Gundo’s every touch against Chelsea.

It showed he can play very well when there is not much defending to be done, but I’m not sure how well he could give defensive cover when the heat is on.

I'm not concerned. With Gundogan we keep the ball more so we have to do less defending than with Dinho. Plus against Chelsea his pressing was also wonderful.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I'm not concerned. With Gundogan we keep the ball more so we have to do less defending than with Dinho. Plus against Chelsea his pressing was also wonderful.

But it is impossible not to be counter attacked, no matter how much we have the ball & also our players will make mistakes.

We will still need to defend in that position, in key games. We even saw it v Leicester, with Gundo & Zinchenko lying on the ground as Vardy disappeared, to score.

His defensive contribution when things go wrong, will have to improve, if he is to get games ahead of Dinho & also people like Fred.

Incidentally, Fern has pretty much the same pass success rate as Gundogan but is much better defensively, particularly stopping aerial situations.

 

[schfc6]

But it is impossible not to be counter attacked, no matter how much we have the ball & also our players will make mistakes.

We will still need to defend in that position, in key games. We even saw it v Leicester, with Gundo & Zinchenko lying on the ground as Vardy disappeared, to score.

His defensive contribution when things go wrong, will have to improve, if he is to get games ahead of Dinho & also people like Fred.

Incidentally, Fern has pretty much the same pass success rate as Gundogan but is much better defensively, particularly stopping aerial situations.

I think we've been spoilt with Fernandinho. Especially as you point out, aerially. I think having someone that good at filling in the lines on the floor and in the air is rare. Especially when you combine it with his pace, athletic ability and his decent attacking game. He really has become the real deal, the total package in that role.
I think we'll be very lucky to uncover another like him. I think Fred will provide the energy Fernandinho does. Hopefully a little more considering age.
Gundogan is slightly better in possession and at his pomp had a great burst of speed through the middle.

I watch a shit loads of football, I can't think of a suitable replacement or even close to similar replacement to Fernandinho.

I noticed Fred vs us, thought he was great. Perhaps Alaba, Savic.

But I can't think of another holding player that rolls pace, power, intelligence, aerial ability, game smarts, passing and energy like Fernandinho does.

 

[Delphacito]

But it is impossible not to be counter attacked, no matter how much we have the ball & also our players will make mistakes.

We will still need to defend in that position, in key games. We even saw it v Leicester, with Gundo & Zinchenko lying on the ground as Vardy disappeared, to score.

His defensive contribution when things go wrong, will have to improve, if he is to get games ahead of Dinho & also people like Fred.

Incidentally, Fern has pretty much the same pass success rate as Gundogan but is much better defensively, particularly stopping aerial situations.

First of all you have to consider that what I said about Gundogan is for when there’s no Dinho, which is why I said Gundogan will be fine defensively. I wasn’t saying we play Gundogan over Dinho full time.

Of course Dinho offers a better defensive presence than Gundogan but Gundogan offers a much better option when attacking. You can’t compare Dinho’s and Gundogan’s pass percentage as Gundogan has many more vertical passes than Dinho, this is a fact.

I wasn’t saying we won’t get counter attacked at all with Gundogan, that’s just stupid. But we will get counter attacked less than when Dinho is playing. But the % of us stopping the counter attack will be slightly lower with Gundogan for sure. Dinho still has trouble passing when being pressed, Gundogan is much better than him.