Does Pep need to be more pragmatic away from home in Europe?

[Gray]

We lost by giving them good chances and not creating any. Getting absolutely hammered in the champions league does warrant tactical discussion imo

Exactly, burying your head in the sand and repeatedly playing the same way that does not work is bordering on madness.

 

[cadds92]

Pep has just showed his one major flaw arrogance. Yesterday we looked just like a Pellegrini team play their system come what may with no consideration for the opposition. if he does it again on Saturday it will be a major concern imho.

I agree.

I think if I was Pep yesterday I would have shut up shop for the first 20 minutes and then come out and play.

I would have played counter attacking football yesterday.

 

[Gray]

Equally we could have allowed Liverpool to have all of the ball and got spanked as well. Our players aren't used to playing in the manner you have suggested.

Both times at Anfield this season we have given away sloppy goals and then lost all sense of composure. Just look at the three goals we conceded and then make a straight face and say that there were nothing to do with mentality.

Goal 1 - Sane plays a pass that is never available and leaves us short at the back, Walker then has an opportunity to clear it but tries to control it instead and loses the ball.
Goal 2 - Otamendi goes walkabouts with the ball instead of clearing it, Gundogan then bottles out of a 50/50 challenge.
Goal 3 - Laporte shows Salah onto his stronger foot.

None of those goals are outright tactical mistakes. It's just normally composed players making the wrong decisions at the wrong time.

Why do we keep giving away these sloppy goals, surely the players should have learned something about Liverpool by now?

 

[domalino]

Pep has just showed his one major flaw arrogance. Yesterday we looked just like a Pellegrini team play their system come what may with no consideration for the opposition. if he does it again on Saturday it will be a major concern imho.

It amazes me that anyone could write that after watching the game.

The man changed his system specifically for this game. He dropped a winger for an extra central midfielder to try and resist the press, he added another CB instead of using a LB, he had Walker play 20m higher up almost as a wing back.

These are clear and obvious changes he made for this game. To say he played his system with no consideration is factually wrong.

There's discussion to be had about tactics yesterday, but if you can't even recognise those really big and obvious changes that he made specifically for this game, then I have to ask what's the point in discussing it, as you obviously weren't watching.

 

[nellyonthewing]

How many of the team are playing anything like the level they were at say November? ..Its been a long Season and many look jaded with nothing on the bench to energize it.

 

[City_Sean]

It amazes me that anyone could write that after watching the game.

The man changed his system specifically for this game. He dropped a winger for an extra central midfielder to try and resist the press, he added another CB instead of using a LB, he had Walker play 20m higher up almost as a wing back.

There's discussion to be had about tactics yesterday, but if you can't even recognise those really big and obvious changes that he made specifically for this game, then I have to ask what's the point in discussing it, as you obviously weren't watching.

The biggest issue with this yesterday was it meant all of our attacks were directed down the left, it simply allowed Liverpool to overload that side as we weren't moving the ball quick enough, and we didn't have that duel threat on the right.

 

[domalino]

The biggest issue with this yesterday was it meant all of our attacks were directed down the left, it simply allowed Liverpool to overload that side as we weren't moving the ball quick enough, and we didn't have that duel threat on the right.

I agree there were big tactical issues, but to see people complain about Pep never changing or being stubborn when he clearly made big changes is hilarious.

You have wonder if these people even watched the game?! Arguably the problem is he changed too much.

 

[ak93city]

Equally we could have allowed Liverpool to have all of the ball and got spanked as well. Our players aren't used to playing in the manner you have suggested.

Every Liverpool defeat this season across all competitions have come in games where they've dominated the ball (65%+ possession). If you haven't already figured out, Klopp isn't good in possession.

So yeah, letting them have the ball would certainly be MUCH more effective than what Pep's been trying to do I imagine. Whether he'll do that or not is a separate issue.

 

[dhruvblue]

This team is drilled to play in one way.
Something we changed last night and looked clueless.
People talk about playing pragmatic approach or shutting shop,no not happening can't do it.Our players at the moment aren't cut out for that.
I am scared we are getting more and more one system based club and we look clueless if told to other things

 

[Damien10]

No he needs to stick with what's worked all season. Mendy got injured and Delph,Zin,Danilo have all worked in that position. When Sterlings not been available Bernardo has done fantastic. So why did he try something different in a huge game like yesterday. Stick with what has worked so well!

Yesterday Pep got it wrong.

 

[City_Sean]

I agree there were big tactical issues, but to see people complain about Pep never changing or being stubborn when he clearly made big changes is hilarious.

You have wonder if these people even watched the game?! Arguably the problem is he changed too much.

That's my thoughts. I think he changed too much and it ended up in players looking uncomfortable with their roles. I think the Gundogan experiment left Walker completely exposed. It happens though, but I find it hilarious that people think we should adopt Mourinho like tactics.

 

[Jordie]

No he needs to stick with what's worked all season. Mendy got injured and Delph,Zin,Danilo have all worked in that position. When Sterlings not been available Bernardo has done fantastic. So why did he try something different in a huge game like yesterday. Stick with what has worked so well!

Yesterday Pep got it wrong.

Correct.

 

[Silvas' left eyebrow]

How many of the team are playing anything like the level they were at say November? ..Its been a long Season and many look jaded with nothing on the bench to energize it.

It also for me showed how painfully short of strikers we are. Jesus fed off scraps all be it he had a good goal chalked off . I personally like 352 but we don't have enough bodies. Long gone are the days of negrado, aguero, dzeko and jovetic. Ho how useful a Giroud might have been as a out ball to beat the press. Having knock ons for raz and sane to chase.

 

[fatbloke]

I'm not missing your point mate. I'm saying that a coach has to look at a game and take the approach most likely to win. And if it's our Achilles heel then we should do something about it. What's that quote about insanity being repeating the same event and expecting a different outcome?

A good coach should be able to train his players to play a different game once in a blue moon. When Burnley came to us in the league, Dyche had them playing a pressing game that they don't usually play. It was a full-on high press all over the field. Now it didn't pay off in the end but it took a penalty then two goals in the last 20 minutes to win it. I really admired Dyche a lot more after that as he'd achieved that in a week.

So Pep knowing that Klopp has his measure and that Klopp knew he was unlikely to change should have seen him come up with something totally different. Three at the back and a false-nine, let them attack us for 60 minutes then make the changes and cut loose when they're committed to going forward. We used to criticise Pellgrini for being pig-headed, seemingly not studying the opposition and not having a plan B so what's the difference?

You really are missing his point pal.

We did try a plan B, we did change tactics, we did try to be pragmatic - it just didn’t work.

 

[Silvas' left eyebrow]

Hate to say it but tactically Jose showed how to kill liverpools threat only allow six yards of space behind to run into for Salah. Instead of half a pitch, whilst sprinting back to your own goal trying to defend.


On a plus side I seem to recall Liverpool being 3 down at half time in Istanbul and that turned out OK for them.

Cliche but the first goal will be everything on the 10th.

 

[cadds92]

Hate to say it but tactically Jose showed how to kill liverpools threat only allow six yards of space behind to run into for Salah. Instead of half a pitch, whilst sprinting back to your own goal trying to defend.


On a plus side I seem to recall Liverpool being 3 down at half time in Istanbul and that turned out OK for them.

Cliche but the first goal will be everything on the 10th.

If we score in the first in 5-10 minutes then the atmosphere will probably rocket and give the players belief.

If they score first we might as well all go home.

 

[fatbloke]

I think if we had a good left wing back option , a fit Mendy we could well see 3 at the back in these games , probably next season we will. If he could play next week I'd try it with Aguero and Sterling or Sane as the front 2. Don't know how far away Mendy is though, probably couldn't do 90 min though anyway.

This.

You could see at the start of the season 3 at the back would be our go to tactic against the big teams (if Mendy had been fit) as it allows four central midfielders or two strikers without sacrificing width.

There’s still a huge risk as we saw with Salah in the home game which needed at least one big save from Ederson but you have to score the first goal against Liverpool, so it’s worth the risk (I think).

 

[Silvas' left eyebrow]

If we score in the first in 5-10 minutes then the atmosphere will probably rocket and give the players belief.

If they score first we might as well all go home.

Whatever the outcome looking at what's left in I think this is where it finishes for Liverpool. They could be on the end of a 10 over two legs against any of the other three......still can't believe how bad we were. Where did our on field leaders go to say at 2-0 right this effing stops now and get a grip of it.its not all about pep when they cross the white line.

 

[Newquayblue]

We have Battered majority of the sides we come up against this season and when we look shite at Anfield like we always Do there a big discussion on Pep should change! No he shouldn’t his tactics last night wasn’t the reason we lost it was incidental mistakes and he lineman

Very disappointing to read posters demanding Pep should change, because he has repeatedly stated he "will not", which effectively means they want him to go - LUDICROUS! UCL puts us in the same position we were in last season in the EPL, i.e. playing Pep's way but not quite well enough. We will win the EPL this year without compromising Pep's ideals, by playing with the same ethos -- much to the chagrin of those demanding change last season; playing any other way would be defeat in Pep's eyes. We WILL win UCL playing this way with Pep despite the criticism of those demanding he compromise his principles and I cannot wait for that night.

 

[cadds92]

Whatever the outcome looking at what's left in I think this is where it finishes for Liverpool. They could be on the end of a 10 over two legs against any of the other three......still can't believe how bad we were. Where did our on field leaders go to say at 2-0 right this effing stops now and get a grip of it.its not all about pep when they cross the white line.

I didn’t think the tactics were that bad last night. The only change I would have made was to sit deep and counter for the first 20 minutes whilst the Liverpool euphoria blew over for a bit.

I can sort of understood why Gundogan was picked yet either way it doesn’t make up for that fact that he just didn’t perform regardless.

I said last night the psychology of team was just not there last night. Maybe the pressure of us playing a team at least 16 points behind us in the league and proving that by beating them was just too much. This was the reason I didn’t want an English team. The pressure to prove we are so far ahead of them in pretty much two one off games was maybe just too much.

I knew when Pep mentioned his dissatisfaction with the the bus situation in the pre-match interview that we were making excuses. This idea that Pep and some of the players were not affected is nonsense because if it was the case many of them would not have been quite overly vocal about it.