World Cup 2018 | 24th June | England vs Panama Match Thread, KO 13:00 (BST)

[KentBlue]

Kane is a good goalscorer, but he's not a good player.

 

[JimB]

Well they have a point, in that his general play isn’t the best. There was one point yesterday where he overhit a through ball for sterling that would have left him one on one. It wasn’t a difficult pass and Kane fucked it up.

The question what you want from your central striker is an interesting one. I think with Kane he doesn’t bring much else to the party but he scores goals. Has he missed a chance yet? And since goals are ultimately what the game is about, lots of people say ‘what more do you want’ with good reason. But likewise, if we are playing Spain or Brazil he isn’t going to be chasing and pressing and contributing like others in the team, even if you wouldn’t take him off with 20 minutes to go if you needed a goal.

Speaking for myself, he reminds me of Lineker. He didn’t contribute much in terms of general play, either, but he could score goals. One of the worst things Graham Taylor ever did was take Lineker off in his final match with about 30 minutes to go and England losing 2-1 against Sweden. He brought Alan Smith on in his place because ‘smith holds the ball up better’. Like I say, it’s about what you want your centre forward to do.

I'd say that you haven't watched him much, or carefully enough.

Kane's all round play is excellent. You highlighted the one big mistake he made all game. Apart from his goals, he played a number of good passes which, while not necessarily eye-catching, were nevertheless incisive (he rarely plays the kind of conservative pass that achieves nothing more than to keep possession). He also helped to create at least two good chances, one of which eventually led to Stones' second goal. It's probably also worth remembering that, because of his current reputation as one of the most dangerous strikers in world football, he is being very tightly marked - and that leaves more space for the other attackers to play.

For Spurs, he works tirelessly. If he isn't doing that for England, it will only be because Southgate has asked him to play differently. So to tag him as someone who doesn't do much other than score goals, like Lineker (who definitely didn't!), is very wide of the mark.

 

[Armchair Supporter]

To be fair, he was pretty ineffectual yesterday (penalties aside). Same with Vardy and Sterling, which suggests this team isn't set up quite as well as it could be (despite the great result). These are all excellent players but I'm not convinced we're getting the best out of them in open play.

Eh? Sterling played well

 

[Blue Llama]

A lot of stupidity on here today

 

[jamesha]

Kane has a 100% shots to goals ratio which sounds impressive until you take away the two penalties and freak hat trick goal and realise that he has only had two intentional shots on target in two games against World Cup minnows. Compare this with Lukaku who has looked very dangerous for Belgium whilst scoring four goals from open play against the same opposition and the hype looks a bit out of control.

I feel that England will get found out once they come up against a good team in the knock stages that knows how to defend set-pieces.

 

[Bluearmy]

Shearer
Owen
Fowler
Lineker
Andy cole
Jimmy greeves
Nat lofthouse
Geoff hurst
Just a few off top of my head better than him

Fowler and Cole..? For England... never in a million years are they better than Kane is now. And he's got years of his international career to go!

While I will give you Kane could add more, he sticks the ball in the net and that's a pretty good skill to have... I do think some people are getting carried away with the performances. There's been quite a few penalties and dead ball goals. Again, it's not a bad thing to have in your locker, but would be nice to score a few more from open play...

But compared to the last 20+ years, we actually look like a team for once. Even with players that most would agree are below the level of the likes of Shearer, scholes, gerrard, terry, lampard, beckham, Owen, Ferdinand, cole etc etc

 

[BlueDan91]

I was sceptical, and still am, of Southgate from a tactical viewpoint- I didn't think he was the right man for the job.

However, having seen his reactions and passion on the touchline, plus the squad harmony and togetherness (which reminds me of City) I have changed my opinion that he is the right man for the job at this current moment for this England squad.

Id be shocked if we went on to win the thing but as previous posters have said they are giving the nation something to cheer about after years of no hope and I've found watching us enjoyable so far this tournament.

 

[Bozo]

 

[Chris in London]

I'd say that you haven't watched him much, or carefully enough.

I'd say you are a Spurs fan.

I've watched him as many times as you have this world cup, and probably just as carefully. I just haven't watched him through Spurs-tinted glasses. Maybe he does work hard for Spurs, but Spurs aren't playing in this tournament, and Harry kane isn't playing for Spurs at the moment.

Maybe at City we just have higher standards ;)

 

[JimB]

I'd say you are a Spurs fan.

I've watched him as many times as you have this world cup, and probably just as carefully. I just haven't watched him through Spurs-tinted glasses. Maybe he does work hard for Spurs, but Spurs aren't playing in this tournament, and Harry kane isn't playing for Spurs at the moment.

Maybe at City we just have higher standards ;)

Indeed, I am a Spurs fan!

As I said, if Kane isn't working as tirelessly for England as he does for Spurs, then it will only be because Southgate has asked him to play in a different way. Still.........better than putting him on the wing, as Hodgson basically did at the last tournament!

 

[Marvin]

Beware Columbia. Not necessarily going to qualify after having a man sent off 5 mins into the opening game, but they maybe on a collision course with Belgium or England and they are a quality side.

England's set pieces were very good against Panama, and Kane is a great finisher, but I think against a good side England will struggle to retain possession.

Southgate maybe smarter than he is given credit for. The wing backs he has deployed are going to be a 5 man defence screened by powerful midfielders like Henderson and Loftus Cheek. England may well be quite a difficult side to break down. The downside is that England carry little or no threat from open play and players like Sterling will be starved of quality possession. You can see that already even against Tunisia and Panama

 

[Indaparkside]

fowler haha, 26 games 7 goals. Kane 26 games 18 goals.

Kane is a good goalscorer, but he's not a good player.

Reminds me of a young Jimmy Hill Big chin fooker

 

[Indaparkside]

Fowler and Cole..? For England... never in a million years are they better than Kane is now. And he's got years of his international career to go!

While I will give you Kane could add more, he sticks the ball in the net and that's a pretty good skill to have... I do think some people are getting carried away with the performances. There's been quite a few penalties and dead ball goals. Again, it's not a bad thing to have in your locker, but would be nice to score a few more from open play...

But compared to the last 20+ years, we actually look like a team for once. Even with players that most would agree are below the level of the likes of Shearer, scholes, gerrard, terry, lampard, beckham, Owen, Ferdinand, cole etc etc

Being sarcastic pal just don't like him don't know why maybe cos I hate spuds

 

[Bluearmy]

Being sarcastic pal just don't like him don't know why maybe cos I hate spuds

Fair enough. Him playing for them does make you feel slightly nauseous.....

 

[Marvin]

Kane is doing what Kane does mate hes scoring goals. The Euros I understood critisicsm of him and his fellow team mates but just not now

There was very little football played against Panama. It was two pens, two set pieces, a deflection and a long distance goal. The possession football was none-existent.

There's no reason why England can't do well and surprise people, but I haven't seen any evidence yet that they are about to.

Kane does not have the creativity of some forward players but he's there to finish chances, and there aren't many better goal scorers in the game. I don't see how anyone can even question that given his record in the Premier League and in internationals. The question is do England have the team to support him.

 

[inbetween]

Fowler and Cole..? For England... never in a million years are they better than Kane is now. And he's got years of his international career to go!

While I will give you Kane could add more, he sticks the ball in the net and that's a pretty good skill to have... I do think some people are getting carried away with the performances. There's been quite a few penalties and dead ball goals. Again, it's not a bad thing to have in your locker, but would be nice to score a few more from open play...

But compared to the last 20+ years, we actually look like a team for once. Even with players that most would agree are below the level of the likes of Shearer, scholes, gerrard, terry, lampard, beckham, Owen, Ferdinand, cole etc etc

I think he's done really well, he has scored every goal he should of and that's really all you can ask for.

Kane and the rest play against the best players in the world week in week out so they should be more than capable of doing well and they are getting it just right so far.

Indeed the difference has been the team rather than individual players but you could say the exact same for city this year.

 

[Magicpole]

Interesting to see the back a forward about Sterling. Answer me this, if he had put in those two performances and had been one of the Rags best players, how would you describe them?

I don’t think Shearer was having a go. He wanted him to score, but the pictures don’t lie. He missed an absolute sitter and luckily it didn’t matter as Stoves out it in. He also fluffed a chance against Tunisia, again saved for being offside.

I don’t think he is playing well. He gets singled out more because you need creativity and he is supposed to contribute to that. He isn’t doing it enough. If you don’t agree, watch both games again.

He gets a load of shit, but, on these two games he hasn’t shone. And as I said, if he was a Rag player I don’t think you would be defending him in his performances

He needs to step up, seems a bit scared to me. Hesitant. Running into dead ends too often. He is attracting attention if a couple of players every time on the ball. He needs to capitalise on this by releasing the ball quicker to exploit them crowding him. It hasn’t happened enough. The attention he gets comes with the territory of a top player, if people don’t like you they use it to have a go.

The simple answer is play better, not miss sitters and give them fuck all to say.

Against Belgium you need all your top players, if they don’t perform, young Kevin will tear you a new one.

 

[daztrueblue91]

Interesting to see the back a forward about Sterling. Answer me this, if he had put in those two performances and had been one of the Rags best players, how would you describe them?

I don’t think Shearer was having a go. He wanted him to score, but the pictures don’t lie. He missed an absolute sitter and luckily it didn’t matter as Stoves out it in. He also fluffed a chance against Tunisia, again saved for being offside.

I don’t think he is playing well. He gets singled out more because you need creativity and he is supposed to contribute to that. He isn’t doing it enough. If you don’t agree, watch both games again.

He gets a load of shit, but, on these two games he hasn’t shone. And as I said, if he was a Rag player I don’t think you would be defending him in his performances

He needs to step up, seems a bit scared to me. Hesitant. Running into dead ends too often. He is attracting attention if a couple of players every time on the ball. He needs to capitalise on this by releasing the ball quicker to exploit them crowding him. It hasn’t happened enough. The attention he gets comes with the territory of a top player, if people don’t like you they use it to have a go.

The simple answer is play better, not miss sitters and give them fuck all to say.

Against Belgium you need all your top players, if they don’t perform, young Kevin will tear you a new one.

The problem is that people are not criticising Sterling solely based on his performances, it’s because people don’t like him.

How the fuck Rashford has become the saviour of English football based on the season he’s had at United and a good 45 minutes against Costa Rica I’ll never know. In fact, I do know, it’s because no one wants Sterling to start so they big up and overhype a competitor for his position.

We won 6-1 yesterday and Sterling was involved in a couple of goals but people still aren’t happy with him. He’s even been criticised for missing an offside chance FFS.

But the key factor in Sterling’s performances is that he’s got a section of the nation wanting him to fail. He fails to beat a man and he gets slagged off, Rashford does it and it’s good forward thinking.

 

[Rolee]

Interesting to see the back a forward about Sterling. Answer me this, if he had put in those two performances and had been one of the Rags best players, how would you describe them?

I don’t think Shearer was having a go. He wanted him to score, but the pictures don’t lie. He missed an absolute sitter and luckily it didn’t matter as Stoves out it in. He also fluffed a chance against Tunisia, again saved for being offside.

I don’t think he is playing well. He gets singled out more because you need creativity and he is supposed to contribute to that. He isn’t doing it enough. If you don’t agree, watch both games again.

He gets a load of shit, but, on these two games he hasn’t shone. And as I said, if he was a Rag player I don’t think you would be defending him in his performances

He needs to step up, seems a bit scared to me. Hesitant. Running into dead ends too often. He is attracting attention if a couple of players every time on the ball. He needs to capitalise on this by releasing the ball quicker to exploit them crowding him. It hasn’t happened enough. The attention he gets comes with the territory of a top player, if people don’t like you they use it to have a go.

The simple answer is play better, not miss sitters and give them fuck all to say.

Against Belgium you need all your top players, if they don’t perform, young Kevin will tear you a new one.

Missed sitter or great save?

Lukaku against City in the derby at their place, missed sitter or great save from Ederson?

Lingard was praised for his Tunisia performance, missed sitter or good movement to be there? I know how that performance and that chance in particular would've been received were it Sterling.

The best bit of football England produced against Panama had Sterling right at the heart of it.

 

[Magicpole]

The problem is that people are not criticising Sterling solely based on his performances, it’s because people don’t like him.

How the fuck Rashford has become the saviour of English football based on the season he’s had at United and a good 45 minutes against Costa Rica I’ll never know. In fact, I do know, it’s because no one wants Sterling to start so they big up and overhype a competitor for his position.

We won 6-1 yesterday and Sterling was involved in a couple of goals but people still aren’t happy with him. He’s even been criticised for missing an offside chance FFS.

But the key factor in Sterling’s performances is that he’s got a section of the nation wanting him to fail. He fails to beat a man and he gets slagged off, Rashford does it and it’s good forward thinking.

I hear what you are saying, I think Rashford is totally over rated. The situation though still remains, Sterling has to improve for him. He hasn’t played anywhere in the post code of well yet.

If he does he shuts everyone up and keeps his place. He needs to step up. And people mentioned his missed off side sitter, because he didn’t know it was and totally fucked it up.

He has always had a few sitters in his locker. As you start to play real teams he will be required if you are to have any chance. On his current performances he won’t provide the edge needed.

Again, if anybody disagrees, watch both games again and imagine he was a Utd player.