Mateo Kovacic

[razman]

thought he has a release clause

not a starter either for Croatia or madrid. Young though.

 

[domalino]

Why can’t Delph be the DM?

Because he's a left back, the only left back cover we have for Mendy, and the two of them are so injury prone that we'll be lucky if we go through the entire season without a spell where both are injured.

 

[Kokonut1307]

Jorghinio is not a DM, he is a deep lying playing maker, so any argument about kovacic not being a DM, is bullshit. Kovacic has more qualities than jorghinio would ever have to carry out the DM role. Probably a mute argument but has to be said.

Finally someone understands we are not looking for an exact Fernandinho replacement. We need someone who can resist and cycle the ball better against pressing teams like l’pool.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

thought he has a release clause

not a starter either for Croatia or madrid. Young though.

The release clause was reportedly lifted last summer from 50mil to 300mil mate....

 

[Neville Kneville]

Finally someone understands we are not looking for an exact Fernandinho replacement. We need someone who can resist and cycle the ball better against pressing teams like l’pool.

Not sure Fred fits that description.

We may be just looking for a quality player who can play there.

 

[razman]

The release clause was reportedly lifted last summer from 50mil to 300mil mate....

oh , then would be paying more him than Fred / Jorginho for sure

 

[Kokonut1307]

Not sure Fred fits that description.

We may be just looking for a quality player who can play there.

I have only seen Fred play twice so I can’t judge what type of player he is, but I guess you are right about him not having the passing ability to be a deep lying playmaker.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I have only seen Fred play twice so I can’t judge what type of player he is, but I guess you are right about him not having the passing ability to be a deep lying playmaker.

I was looking forward to seeing Jorginho but imo having a player like him in that position is not a guaranteed success in the Prem. But Jorginho is a good enough footballer to play other roles if it didn't work out, so it's a pity if we don't get him.

 

[93.01]

Jorghino has the game to operate at the base of a midfield, recycling the ball, building and instigating attacks.
What he does not have is the mobility, pace and aggression of Fern to "routinely make tackles and interceptions in the Prem.
Racking up tackling and interception stats in Italy, doesn't strike me as a sound barometer of his defensive ability
I have not suggested that we need a Nigel De Jong, destroyer type defensive midfielder. You have mentioned this.
What I am saying is that what I think we need is a similar player to Fern, whom provides more of a balance in ability attacking and defensive wise.
It is on this basis I would argue that Kovacic is closer to Fern in style than Jorghinio is.
I would like to be proven wrong and who knows City may still be in the race for Jorghinio, but from what I have seen from the player on pace alone he would not have the capacity to "cut out attacks and help sweep up in front of the centre backs", in the helter skelter speed of the prem.
No chance.

 

[93.01]

Finally someone understands we are not looking for an exact Fernandiniho replacement. We need someone who can resist and cycle the ball better against pressing teams like l’pool.

Im half with you and I can see where others are coming from. Yes I agree we do need someone who can resist and cycle the ball better against pressing teams like l’pool. But my argument is that this should not be at the expense of opening up ourselves defensively, as I think we may do if a layer like Jorghinio is pursued. Ferns ability to put out fires and screen the defence was brilliant last season, it was as you have correctly suggested his difficulty in resisting the press which was a problem at times last season.
Given it appears that Jorghnio deal may not go through my argument is that if a player similar to Fern is an option, I would rather pursue that player than Jorghinio who whilst is a terrific player, I dont think has the defensive capacity to provide what Fern gave us last season.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Jorghino has the game to operate at the base of a midfield, recycling the ball, building and instigating attacks.
What he does not have is the mobility, pace and aggression of Fern to "routinely make tackles and interceptions in the Prem.
Racking up tackling and interception stats in Italy, doesn't strike me as a sound barometer of his defensive ability
I have not suggested that we need a Nigel De Jong, destroyer type defensive midfielder. You have mentioned this.
What I am saying is that what I think we need is a similar player to Fern, whom provides more of a balance in ability attacking and defensive wise.
It is on this basis I would argue that Kovacic is closer to Fern in style than Jorghinio is.
I would like to be proven wrong and who knows City may still be in the race for Jorghinio, but from what I have seen from the player on pace alone he would not have the capacity to "cut out attacks and help sweep up in front of the centre backs", in the helter skelter speed of the prem.
No chance.

Pep mentioned a number of times, wanting a Yaya replacement, not a Fern replacement....Someone that has the passing range to unlock teams when they put 11 behind the ball...I think players like Kovacic have the pace and high energy that Jorginho lacks but dont have the passing range Jorginho offers, which is why I think we've spent so long trying to complete Jorginho's transfer...I actually would prefer someone with pace and high energy but that didnt seem to be what the club was looking for when the summer window opened...

 

[93.01]

You keep spouting this as if it means something when it doesn't.

If Jorginho dropped into the team he would play at the base of midfield with Silva and KDB ahead of him 9 times out of 10. He would be the defensive midfielder, the pivot, the man who cuts out attacks and helps sweep up in front of the centre backs.

He's not a Nigel De Jong, destroyer type defensive midfielder but he is a defensive midfielder, he routinely makes more tackles and interceptions than anyone else in the Napoli midfield even with Allan the box to box midfielder who is supposed to just defend and press and be destructive next to him.

Jorghino has the game to operate at the base of a midfield, recycling the ball, building and instigating attacks.
What he does not have is the mobility, pace and aggression of Fern to "routinely make tackles and interceptions in the Prem.
Racking up tackling and interception stats in Italy, doesn't strike me as a sound barometer of his defensive ability
I have not suggested that we need a Nigel De Jong, destroyer type defensive midfielder. You have mentioned this.
What I am saying is that what I think we need is a similar player to Fern, whom provides more of a balance in ability attacking and defensive wise.
It is on this basis I would argue that Kovacic is closer to Fern in style than Jorghinio is.
I would like to be proven wrong and who knows City may still be in the race for Jorghinio, but from what I have seen from the player on pace alone he would not have the capacity to "cut out attacks and help sweep up in front of the centre backs", in the helter skelter speed of the prem.
No chance.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Jorghino has the game to operate at the base of a midfield, recycling the ball, building and instigating attacks.
What he does not have is the mobility, pace and aggression of Fern to "routinely make tackles and interceptions in the Prem.
Racking up tackling and interception stats in Italy, doesn't strike me as a sound barometer of his defensive ability
I have not suggested that we need a Nigel De Jong, destroyer type defensive midfielder. You have mentioned this.
What I am saying is that what I think we need is a similar player to Fern, whom provides more of a balance in ability attacking and defensive wise.
It is on this basis I would argue that Kovacic is closer to Fern in style than Jorghinio is.
I would like to be proven wrong and who knows City may still be in the race for Jorghinio, but from what I have seen from the player on pace alone he would not have the capacity to "cut out attacks and help sweep up in front of the centre backs", in the helter skelter speed of the prem.
No chance.

Personally I think Pep is after a player to take the weight off Fernandinho rather than replace him, & that's why the players we have been looking at are all different in their attributes.

There is more than one way to do it & Pep will try to work it with whichever type comes.

 

[domalino]

Jorghino has the game to operate at the base of a midfield, recycling the ball, building and instigating attacks.
What he does not have is the mobility, pace and aggression of Fern to "routinely make tackles and interceptions in the Prem.
Racking up tackling and interception stats in Italy, doesn't strike me as a sound barometer of his defensive ability
I have not suggested that we need a Nigel De Jong, destroyer type defensive midfielder. You have mentioned this.
What I am saying is that what I think we need is a similar player to Fern, whom provides more of a balance in ability attacking and defensive wise.
It is on this basis I would argue that Kovacic is closer to Fern in style than Jorghinio is.
I would like to be proven wrong and who knows City may still be in the race for Jorghinio, but from what I have seen from the player on pace alone he would not have the capacity to "cut out attacks and help sweep up in front of the centre backs", in the helter skelter speed of the prem.
No chance.

Again Jorginho is a defensive midfielder.

You might not think he's the right type (Pep obviously disagreed), you may think Kovacic will be better (Possibly) but that doesn't get away from the fact Jorginho is a defensive midfielder despite being more adept at moving the ball quickly and evading presses than making recovery tackles after 30m sprints.

So spamming "Jorginho is a deep lying playmaker not a DM" in every thread still doesn't mean anything.

 

[93.01]

Pep mentioned a number of times, wanting a Yaya replacement, not a Fern replacement....Someone that has the passing range to unlock teams when they put 11 behind the ball...I think players like Kovacic have the pace and high energy that Jorginho lacks but dont have the passing range Jorginho offers, which is why I think we've spent so long trying to complete Jorginho's transfer...I actually would prefer someone with pace and high energy but that didn't seem to be what the club was looking for when the summer window opened...

This is exactly what Im saying and I appreciate your comments on this because I think we may be in a minority whilst emotions are probably a bit raw with this deal potentially falling through.
I recall Pep saying or it coming from within the club that he was a yaya replacement.
The problem we have is that I think the default position for some is that if you state that there may be better alternatives it is felt you are saying Jorghinio is shit.
This could not be farther from the truth.
I really really rate him but its just that his strengths are enough to negate his weaknesses and there potential impact on the team. Further I think that what he brings should not be prioritized over another player who may be able to provide a better balance in relation to attacking and defensive qualities.
Your comments about pace and energy are absolutely spot on and should not be understated in the pursuit of some aspirational view of how a player may fit in.
Javia Garcia, was a specialist DM, at City.
I actually liked him but where he struggled for City was his distinct lack of pace.
Jorghinio looks even slower than him, therefore I am aghast as to why it is felt this lad would be able to cope with the defensive side of the prem, given the issues Javia had.
Cheers anyway

 

[93.01]

Again Jorginho is a defensive midfielder.

You might not think he's the right type (Pep obviously disagreed), you may think Kovacic will be better (Possibly) but that doesn't get away from the fact Jorginho is a defensive midfielder despite being more adept at moving the ball quickly and evading presses than making recovery tackles after 30m sprints.

So spamming "Jorginho is a deep lying playmaker not a DM" in every thread still doesn't mean anything.

Check my most it should address most of what you have written.
You are wrong about Jorghinio being a DM.
I am actually open to your point of view as time and observation will evidence how he copes in the prem defensively.
However, it would be perhaps be of help to you if you critically reviewed what it is you think you know before adopting an entrenched position.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

This is exactly what Im saying and I appreciate your comments on this because I think we may be in a minority whilst emotions are probably a bit raw with this deal potentially falling through.
I recall Pep saying or it coming from within the club that he was a yaya replacement.
The problem we have is that I think the default position for some is that if you state that there may be better alternatives it is felt you are saying Jorghinio is shit.
This could not be farther from the truth.
I really really rate him but its just that his strengths are enough to negate his weaknesses and there potential impact on the team. Further I think that what he brings should not be prioritized over another player who may be able to provide a better balance in relation to attacking and defensive qualities.
Your comments about pace and energy are absolutely spot on and should not be understated in the pursuit of some aspirational view of how a player may fit in.
Javia Garcia, was a specialist DM, at City.
I actually liked him but where he struggled for City was his distinct lack of pace.
Jorghinio looks even slower than him, therefore I am aghast as to why it is felt this lad would be able to cope with the defensive side of the prem, given the issues Javia had.
Cheers anyway

Raw emotions? Always the same mate......whenever we get bad news, natural default position, is start slagging each other off!;) I guess its understandable when we are all here because we passionate about the club!;) Whether the links are real or not...looks like we might be spending more time in this thread than any other over the next few days!;)

 

[domalino]

Check my most it should address most of what you have written.
You are wrong about Jorghinio being a DM.
I am actually open to your point of view as time and observation will evidence how he copes in the prem defensively.
However, it would be perhaps be of help to you if you critically reviewed what it is you think you know before adopting an entrenched position.

Oh dear god another person who has seen a Tifo football video and played football manager and thinks they know everything.

If you actually understood the video you've just posted you'd realise there's no way Jorginho either is or would be a Pirlo style regista in our team, and it's making a distinction where one doesn't exist. Fernandinho does everything a "regista" does, but he's also the defensive midfielder. So does Jorginho. So does Busquets.

These are defensive midfielders. Yes they direct and control the game, and create from deep, but they do it as defensive midfielders or holding midfielders, or pivots, whatever you want to call them.

 

[Ajm1985]

Check my most it should address most of what you have written.
You are wrong about Jorghinio being a DM.
I am actually open to your point of view as time and observation will evidence how he copes in the prem defensively.
However, it would be perhaps be of help to you if you critically reviewed what it is you think you know before adopting an entrenched position.

So from your understanding of that, you'd say we'd buy Jorginho sit him at the base (instead of Fernandinho) and have De Bruyne/Silva mopping up defensive duties (like Gattuso/Ambrosini for Pirlo); or employ Jorginho in a 2 with Fernandinho, with Fern acting as the defensive shield?

 

[Delphacito]

Check my most it should address most of what you have written.
You are wrong about Jorghinio being a DM.
I am actually open to your point of view as time and observation will evidence how he copes in the prem defensively.
However, it would be perhaps be of help to you if you critically reviewed what it is you think you know before adopting an entrenched position.

I think you are too entrenched with the idea of DM being a midfielder that defends. Your idea of DM is more of a role, but instead when people refer to DM it’s more towards where he is positioned than the role, which is behind De Bruyne and Silva. His role could be whatever, but his position is DM.