Religion

[Deleted member 77198]

How many people do I have to get to say they believe something before we are given the protections religion gets?

Ultimately all religion was started by one person who made some stuff up and it snowballed from there.

Humans worshipped what they saw around them. Real things: the Sun, the Earth, the Moon, the stars, the seasons, water, fire, trees, plants, animals...

They will have attached fanciful stories and Gods to these things.

Different folk religions became more organised and lead to recognised Pagan religions that were followed by masses. The monotheistic religions plagiarised Paganism and attested the stories of the array of Gods and deities to stories of individuals as if it was historical and of real people under “one true God”.

Every story of Jesus can be seen in previous religious or myths or real life events of people or Gods before the time of Jesus. There are dozens of previously worshipped deities who were born of a miracle virgin birth on 25th December, who spent years in the wilderness, who performed miracles, who were killed and resurrected three days later.

Jesus turned water to wine, well, hang on, Dionysus did that a thousand years before Jesus. Jesus walked on water, Horus did that two thousand years before Jesus.

But all of these stories and myths have their roots in the Pagan religions and ultimately of the Sun. The Son of God, the Sun God: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_solar_deities

Jesus is just another story like them and taken from them, and they are all the personification of the Sun. Something that is real. The Sun turns night into day, gives life to plants and trees, they blossom and give fruit and vegetables to eat. The Sun gives warmth and light. The Summer is the season of the Sun it is “heavenly”. The Sun makes us look healthier, it gives us a tan, it gives us vitamin D to help with bone development and sustainability. A Summer sunset on the coast makes it look like the Sun is walking or dancing on the water... The Sun dies in the Winter, it reaches its lowest point on the Winter Solstice. Winter is cold, dark, harsh, nights are longer the Moon moves around the darkness sometimes hiding (New Moon) just like stories of the Devil or other evil spirits... then three days after the Winter Solstice the Sun can be seen rising higher on the horizon, a miracle birth, the resurrection.

Look at the oldest visible signs of religion in Britain. The henges, stones circles; they point out solar or celestial maps and seasons and often point to the Solstices.

All that matters is what is real: the Sun, the Earth, the Moon, the stars, the seasons, water, fire, trees, plants, animals... if people want to put fanciful myths to those things then fair enough as long as they realise that they are just fanciful myths. The sooner the world realises this the better the world will be. All religion is mythology, Beowulf, King Arthur, Jesus, angels, Buraq, Mohammed, Daniel and the Lions, Abraham, Ishmael, Moses, Noah, Thor, Jupiter, Zeus, Zoroaster, Horus, Father Christmas, tooth fairies... all mythical.

 

[arfurclue]

you're not sharing though are you, you are being abstruse to the point where no one knows what you are on about

i'm happy you have found a way through a dark time i really am, but you seem to imply something divine and when questioned you can't give a straight answer

its as simple as that

You are right to say that I cannot communicate with you. I understand this.For me, what I write is simple - I wish I could transfer this to you , but seemingly I can't. Each attempt
to do so seems to take us down an even deeper hole. Fuck, man - that's that's not what I want. Would you be willing to forgive me for having
the audacity to have given this a go? Peace and all that.Most likely we won't meet 'in real life' but if we do, then perhaps we might come to mutually
discover that neither of us is 'so bad?'

 

[SouthStandStander]

Humans worshipped what they saw around them. Real things: the Sun, the Earth, the Moon, the stars, the seasons, water, fire, trees, plants, animals...

They will have attached fanciful stories and Gods to these things.

Different folk religions became more organised and lead to recognised Pagan religions that were followed by masses. The monotheistic religions plagiarised Paganism and attested the stories of the array of Gods and deities to stories of individuals as if it was historical and of real people under “one true God”.

Every story of Jesus can be seen in previous religious or myths or real life events of people or Gods before the time of Jesus. There are dozens of previously worshipped deities who were born of a miracle virgin birth on 25th December, who spent years in the wilderness, who performed miracles, who were killed and resurrected three days later.

Jesus turned water to wine, well, hang on, Dionysus did that a thousand years before Jesus. Jesus walked on water, Horus did that two thousand years before Jesus.

But all of these stories and myths have their roots in the Pagan religions and ultimately of the Sun. The Son of God, the Sun God: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_solar_deities

Jesus is just another story like them and taken from them, and they are all the personification of the Sun. Something that is real. The Sun turns night into day, gives life to plants and trees, they blossom and give fruit and vegetables to eat. The Sun gives warmth and light. The Summer is the season of the Sun it is “heavenly”. The Sun makes us look healthier, it gives us a tan, it gives us vitamin D to help with bone development and sustainability. A Summer sunset on the coast makes it look like the Sun is walking or dancing on the water... The Sun dies in the Winter, it reaches its lowest point on the Winter Solstice. Winter is cold, dark, harsh, nights are longer the Moon moves around the darkness sometimes hiding (New Moon) just like stories of the Devil or other evil spirits... then three days after the Winter Solstice the Sun can be seen rising higher on the horizon, a miracle birth, the resurrection.

Look at the oldest visible signs of religion in Britain. The henges, stones circles; they point out solar or celestial maps and seasons and often point to the Solstices.

All that matters is what is real: the Sun, the Earth, the Moon, the stars, the seasons, water, fire, trees, plants, animals... if people want to put fanciful myths to those things then fair enough as long as they realise that they are just fanciful myths. The sooner the world realises this the better the world will be. All religion is mythology, Beowulf, King Arthur, Jesus, angels, Buraq, Mohammed, Daniel and the Lions, Abraham, Ishmael, Moses, Noah, Thor, Jupiter, Zeus, Zoroaster, Horus, Father Christmas, tooth fairies... all mythical stories.

Nailed it with that post

 

[tonea2003]

You are right to say that I cannot communicate with you. I understand this.For me, what I write is simple - I wish I could transfer this to you , but seemingly I can't. Each attempt
to do so seems to take us down an even deeper hole. Fuck, man - that's that's not what I want. Would you be willing to forgive me for having
the audacity to have given this a go? Peace and all that.Most likely we won't 'in real real life' bt if we to, then perhaps we might come to mutually
discover that neither of us is 'so bad?'

you can have as many goes as you want as long as you don't infringe on the c of c its just a forum, just like i'm answering or trying to

lets try it my way and it won't get any simpler than this

do you believe in a divine being? a yes or no answer please, no prison or pub doors

 

[Two Gun Bob]

My last post in this intriguing thread although I do feel the religious folk have been somewhat under represented.Whatever your God Gods or lack of then lets wish all Moon folk good fortune fair winds and following seas regardless of denominational stance and lets enjoy this short ride with every fibre of our being.

A special thanks then to Bob Plant the supreme being.Also a mention in dispatches to my spiritual leader Jimmy Page and the glorious Bonham and exalted in the most highest Mr Jonesy. Four gods in one then. Happy are those that are called to this supper.

"I think this is a song of hope"

 

[arfurclue]

you can have as many goes as you want as long as you don't infringe on the c of c its just a forum, just like i'm answering or trying to

lets try it my way and it won't get any simpler than this

do you believe in a divine being? a yes or no answer please, no prison or pub doors

I know how it is to feel touched by that which may be called 'divine.' So yes - and if this book of beliefs or that opinion on bluemoon says otherwise, then so be it...it does not and cannot negate what I have experienced. And it is utterly, so beautifully amazing. If you would rather use the word 'fandabidozi' instead of 'divine' then great, I have no problem with this. Tell me your 'language' and I will try to speak with you in this way as best I can.

 

[yep]

Party: a social gathering of invited guests, typically involving eating, drinking, and entertainment. Do you like to party?

 

[tonea2003]

I know how it is to feel touched by that which may be called 'divine.' So yes - and if this book of beliefs or that opinion on bluemoon says otherwise, then so be it...it does not and cannot negate what I have experienced. And it is utterly, so beautifully amazing. If you would rather use the word 'fandabidozi' instead of 'divine' then great, I have no problem with this. Tell me your 'language' and I will try to speak with you in this way as best I can.

ok we have established you think there is a divine being

my next question is how do you it is divine?

 

[Gazza]

The least Christian people are Christians.

 

[arfurclue]

ok we have established you think there is a divine being

my next question is how do you it is divine?

'Divine' is just a word. Perhaps an attempt to put a label on that experience which actually might best be described as 'self revelatory truth.' But really
even that description is a piss poor substitution for the the experience of 'what is.' So, if yo want to keep this conversation in the realm of 'which belief
is right, which is wrong' then....well this might seem like fun for a while but ultimately it's just another distraction.

 

[NorCalBlue]

Father Christmas, tooth fairies... all mythical.

I can buy the rest of your post, but this is just nonsense - if you're so clever and logical, explain where my new bike came from when I was 10. It wasn't there when I went to bed.

 

[tonea2003]

'Divine' is just a word. Perhaps an attempt to put a label on that experience which actually might best be described as 'self revelatory truth.' But really
even that description is a piss poor substitution for the the experience of 'what is.' So, if yo want to keep this conversation in the realm of 'which belief
is right, which is wrong' then....well this might seem like fun for a while but ultimately it's just another distraction.

you like a tangent don't you

you know what i'm talking about when i say divine seeing as this is a thread on religion , it is just a word but its the one i'm using

you answered yes to a belief in a divine being, did you not?
and if i can pick through your meanderings, it is because of a feeling you had that took you from a dark place to a good place
my question is how do you know that it is from a divine being or a god for that matter

and for clarity, at no point will i say one belief is any more valid than another, that's not a debate i would ever get into as it is not relevant

 

[arfurclue]

you like a tangent don't you

you know what i'm talking about when i say divine seeing as this is a thread on religion , it is just a word but its the one i'm using

you answered yes to a belief in a divine being, did you not?
and if i can pick through your meanderings, it is because of a feeling you had that took you from a dark place to a good place
my question is how do you know that it is from a divine being or a god for that matter

and for clarity, at no point will i say one belief is any more valid than another, that's not a debate i would ever get into as it is not relevant

do you realise that the way you write is actually quite abusive?

 

[tonea2003]

do you realise that the way you write is actually quite abusive?

why do you think that? they are just questions

point out to me where the abuse is please or is just another attempt at obfuscation

and if you think the way i write is abusive i can think of some posters you wouldn't want to communicate with believe me

i'll try again

how do you know the feeling you had came from a god?

 

[yep]

ok we have established you think there is a divine being

my next question is how do you it is divine?

The same way you know you love someone. There was a time when you did not know the partner you love. There was a time when you knew them but did not love them and then one day you knew you loved them.
Regarding the Divine, perhaps Bachman Turner Overdrive should have written," You ain't EXPERIENCED nothing yet!" The double negative is forgiven.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Ancient religion in general is based a collection of myths and legends which have been manipulated over the years to be used as tools to make people subservient, changing the narrative to suit the situation.

Modern religions are no different, but the ancient myths and legends have been replaced with modern equivalents, and rather than making people subservient, they are used to manipulate people into either parting with their money, or behaving a certain way.

Religious leaders will always profess some sort of divine power over people. This is always open to abuse, and is the main reason why we have so many issues with the Catholic Church in this country.

 

[tonea2003]

The same way you know you love someone. There was a time when you did not know the partner you love. There was a time when you knew them but did not love them and then one day you knew you loved them.
Regarding the Divine, perhaps Bachman Turner Overdrive should have written," You ain't EXPERIENCED nothing yet!" The double negative is forgiven.

what's that got to do with it, how does that correlate to a god?

 

[St.Pauli support]

Belief starts at the point where knowledge ends.
I don't need a God, I even don't know what that would be. Nobody ever has been able to explain to me.

Humans at all times have asked questions about phenomenons they don't understand, as @Psychedelic Casual has pointed out.
As they didn't have an answer, they have been assuming a higher power. One God, or several.
That has worked well and is quite easy, too.

Nowadays, we can explain most phenomenons quite well without any God. I can.
We know about DNA, about continental drift, climate history, sub-atomic particles and evolution of the universe.
Some points are still unsolved, and that's perfect. Our brain is limited.

All that is going on in our brain. Individually.
Our brain is part of human evolution. Only in the last years we have started to learn about fundamental functions of brain physiology.
Well, more than 99% of humans don't, I assume. It's not being taught at school, not even at regular universities.

Religion only exists in your head.

Belief is important in a man's life. Hope, love, appreciation, fairness are basics of a "good life".
Those basics have developed during human evolution, living in clans of about 50 individuals. That's what we are able to manage. Not more.
That's why we just carry on every day although we know exactly that on the big scale the planet is fucked by our way of life as well as many many humans in other parts of the world. We can see it on youtube whenever we want.
But we don't care, we don't want to. It's outside our small life, our "clan".
Thinking about complex situations takes a lot of energy and our system has a wonderful solution: we ignore.
If you think about it a bit closer, you will find that behaviour nearly everywhere in daily life.

Bottom line it's quite easy:
you can believe in some God or not. It's an individual choice, as it goes on in your own head.

(If only you were not being born into religion: christians, muslims, jews.
They don't even have a choice. It's tradition by force. And not easy to get out at all. Not very peaceful, I think.
If any human could decide about his religion whenever he/she wants, what would be left after 2 generations?)

Believing in God or not doesn't make you good or bad.
That's a different story.
Being an arshole in life is irrespective of nationality, colour, gender, religion, age and yes, even fanbase. CTID.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Belief starts at the point where knowledge ends.
I don't need a God, I even don't know what that would be. Nobody ever has been able to explain to me.

Humans at all times have asked questions about phenomenons they don't understand, as @Psychedelic Casual has pointed out.
As they didn't have an answer, they have been assuming a higher power. One God, or several.
That has worked well and is quite easy, too.

Nowadays, we can explain most phenomenons quite well without any God. I can.
We know about DNA, about continental drift, climate history, sub-atomic particles and evolution of the universe.
Some points are still unsolved, and that's perfect. Our brain is limited.

All that is going on in our brain. Individually.
Our brain is part of human evolution. Only in the last years we have started to learn about fundamental functions of brain physiology.
Well, more than 99% of humans don't, I assume. It's not being taught at school, not even at regular universities.

Religion only exists in your head.

Belief is important in a man's life. Hope, love, appreciation, fairness are basics of a "good life".
Those basics have developed during human evolution, living in clans of about 50 individuals. That's what we are able to manage. Not more.
That's why we just carry on every day although we know exactly that on the big scale the planet is fucked by our way of life as well as many many humans in other parts of the world. We can see it on youtube whenever we want.
But we don't care, we don't want to. It's outside our small life, our "clan".
Thinking about complex situations takes a lot of energy and our system has a wonderful solution: we ignore.
If you think about it a bit closer, you will find that behaviour nearly everywhere in daily life.

Bottom line it's quite easy:
you can believe in some God or not. It's an individual choice, as it goes on in your own head.

(If only you were not being born into religion: christians, muslims, jews.
They don't even have a choice. It's tradition by force. And not easy to get out at all. Not very peaceful, I think.
If any human could decide about his religion whenever he/she wants, what would be left after 2 generations?)

Believing in God or not doesn't make you good or bad.
That's a different story.
Being an arshole in life is irrespective of nationality, colour, gender, religion, age and yes, even fanbase. CTID.

Pretty much sums it up.

If you take a young child and teach them the fundamentals of Biology/Physics/Chemistry, then ask them to put that all to one side and tell them the universe is all controlled by an unseen higher power, and the instruction manual is in a 2000 year old story book, they would look at you like you had 2 heads.

 

[blueish swede]

I can buy the rest of your post, but this is just nonsense - if you're so clever and logical, explain where my new bike came from when I was 10. It wasn't there when I went to bed.

The Christmas goat!