The Boxing thread

shevtheblue said:
I had this one closer to a draw than the first encounter, i though Canelo controlled the centre of the ring a lot more in this fight and landed a lot more clean shots than he did in the first one. That being said, he was peppered with SOLID jabs all fight and most of the second half of the fight was GGG. I couldn't make an argument for Canelo winning but easily for it being a draw or razor thin GGG win, it's not a robbery but it's not the correct decision either. The first fight was GGG by a mile so by rights this should be 1-1.
Click to expand...
You're entitled to your opinion, to be fair.

I personally think in the first fight you couldn't be more biased if you gave him more than 1 of the first 3 rounds(even Max Tellerman gave him the first 3 and he's a GGG fanboy) and I thought the last 3 were clearly Canelo's strongest rounds as he came on strong late, there's even a case for the 9th round where Canelo landed the punch of the fight by far(caused that lump on GGG's cheek) but GGG was busier. I think those who pay attention to the replays will see how comfortable Canelo is at close quarters watching it back, slipping and countering, hands down with his back to the ropes at times calling him forward. Interestingly his face was more marked up in this fight than it was in the first fight, remembering the power GGG carries, surely that means something doesn't add up with the way some people were calling the first fight.

The difference in this fight was it was much more back and forth, in the first fight Golovkin was able to put 6 rounds back to back(many thought Canelo gassed with the extra weight he put on) which is what I think swayed a lot of people who weren't scoring round by round, this fight Canelo made sure he took some of those middle rounds. There also wasn't anything like that 7th round GGG had in the first fight either which is still his best round against Canelo so far.

Regarding the overstated "javelin jab"(that BT Sports commentary were trying to push) it was used to break his gaurd up but he a) It never led to anything truly solid/telling b) It failed to even stop Canelo coming forward, countering with power shots throughout.

I knew the GGG fans would be sore but they don't even have the pundits on their side this time around, there's even some saying Canelo won this time around. I scored it a draw the first time of watching, I feel my opinion was swayed by the god awful commentary from BT Sports though and will watch it back. They were refusing to call scoring shots or simply distracted himself while he praised GGG at length which is just blantant fanboyism. It was as I said, like listening to Crimson Clive on a rags game calling a jab like "rooooooooneeeey".

One thing is for sure Canelo proved every hater wrong and we even have hypocrisy, reversing what they said during the first fight where they gave GGG rounds for being the aggressor not actually landing a lot of punches, ignoring how successful Canelo was at making him miss.
 
Last edited:
Metalartin said:
You're entitled to your opinion, to be fair.

I personally think in the first fight you couldn't be more biased if you gave him more than 1 of the first 3 rounds(even Max Tellerman gave him the first 3 and he's a GGG fanboy) and I thought the last 3 were clearly Canelo's strongest rounds as he came on strong late, there's even a case for the 9th round where Canelo landed the punch of the fight by far(caused that lump on GGG's cheek) but GGG was busier. I think those who pay attention to the replays will see how comfortable Canelo is at close quarters watching it back, slipping and countering, hands down with his back to the ropes at times calling him forward. Interestingly his face was more marked up in this fight than it was in the first fight, remembering the power GGG carries, surely that means something doesn't add up with the way some people were calling the first fight.

The difference in this fight was it was much more back and forth, in the first fight Golovkin was able to put 6 rounds back to back which is what I think swayed a lot of people who weren't scoring round by round, this fight Canelo made sure he took some of those middle rounds. There also wasn't anything like that 7th round GGG had in the first fight either which is still his best round against Canelo so far.

Regarding the overstated "javelin jab"(that BT Sports commentary were trying to puch) it was used to break his gaurd up but he a) It never led to anything truly solid/telling b) It failed to even stop Canelo coming forward, countering with power shots throughout.

I knew the GGG fans would be sore but they don't even have the pundits on their side this time around there's even some saying Canelo won this time around.
Click to expand...
I'm in no way a GGG fan boy, when it comes to combat sports i'm well and truly on the side of MMA, but i watched it without commentary and with respect for both fighters and called it how i saw it. I personally thought the middle rounds, although not completely in favour of GG, were his rounds. But the first one was undeniably GGG's fight, i've not seen many people giving it the other way round tbh. Same for this fight, most of the pundits i've read up gave it to GGG HOWEVER, i don't think it's right to be up in arms about it and i don't even think GGG was, it went to the judges and it wasn't clear cut either way. Some say you should have to do more to take the belt away from the champ, i don't agree with that sentiment and think if you beat the champ you take the W regardless of whether he has a belt or not.
 
shevtheblue said:
I'm in no way a GGG fan boy, when it comes to combat sports i'm well and truly on the side of MMA, but i watched it without commentary and with respect for both fighters and called it how i saw it. I personally thought the middle rounds, although not completely in favour of GG, were his rounds. But the first one was undeniably GGG's fight, i've not seen many people giving it the other way round tbh. Same for this fight, most of the pundits i've read up gave it to GGG HOWEVER, i don't think it's right to be up in arms about it and i don't even think GGG was, it went to the judges and it wasn't clear cut either way. Some say you should have to do more to take the belt away from the champ, i don't agree with that sentiment and think if you beat the champ you take the W regardless of whether he has a belt or not.
Click to expand...
Nah plenty of people had Canelo drawing and even winning the first fight, contrary to your "undeniable" claim I've watched it back many times, 7-5 I can see but you'd have to be leaning towards GGG and you'd have to admit there wasn't a lot in it, 8-4 is just pure fanboyism in my view.
 
There has been a split of pundits current fighters and and former pros and there all split on the decision. Fighting on the front foot come forward fighting will always get a few rounds in any fight. If a boxer is picking you off and you have to take a few of there punches to land your own then you would have to score those shots just as much as the come forward fighting. It s not the MMA here where ring control you would get points for it. You need to land and taking the centre of the ring doesnt automatically give you extra points you need to work for it in my opinion.
 
Metalartin said:
Nah plenty of people had Canelo drawing and even winning the first fight, contrary to your "undeniable" claim I've watched it back many times, 7-5 I can see but you'd have to be leaning towards GGG and you'd have to admit there wasn't a lot in it, 8-4 is just pure fanboyism in my view.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, i've only watched it twice and from memory i had it so far in favour of GGG i was bemused both times at how they had given it as a draw.
 
I had the feeling by the end of the fight that their strengths cancel each other out so much that we will never have a definitive answer. Honestly true boxing fans even if the score wasn't what they had will still have been grinning at how good it was as a contest at times, they are both very different boxers but each very impressive in their own right.
 
leighton said:
There has been a split of pundits current fighters and and former pros and there all split on the decision. Fighting on the front foot come forward fighting will always get a few rounds in any fight. If a boxer is picking you off and you have to take a few of there punches to land your own then you would have to score those shots just as much as the come forward fighting. It s not the MMA here where ring control you would get points for it. You need to land and taking the centre of the ring doesnt automatically give you extra points you need to work for it in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Octagon/ring control is a real thing in most of the MMA regulations, dependent on state commission. It was my understanding that ring control & aggression if shown to enforce a fighters own style or will gets marked on in boxing, and i think Canello showed a lot of that in this second fight to be fair to him.
 
Metalartin said:
I had the feeling by the end of the fight that their strengths cancel each other out so much that we will never have a definitive answer. Honestly true boxing fans even if the score wasn't what they had will still have been grinning at how good it was as a contest at times, they are both very different boxers but each very impressive in their own right.
Click to expand...
Yep, i text my friend afterwards (who's a huge Canello fan but thought it was a draw) that i wasn't that arsed about the result because it was exactly what i have been waiting for in a boxing match, both fighters engaging and trying to win the fight. Great fight and a perfect showcase of boxing.
 
shevtheblue said:
Yep, i text my friend afterwards (who's a huge Canello fan but thought it was a draw) that i wasn't that arsed about the result because it was exactly what i have been waiting for in a boxing match, both fighters engaging and trying to win the fight. Great fight and a perfect showcase of boxing.
Click to expand...
I thought the first fight would be hard to top but this one went up a level, it's like they are pushing each other to a new gear when they meet.
 
Metalartin said:
I thought the first fight would be hard to top but this one went up a level, it's like they are pushing each other to a new gear when they meet.
Click to expand...
What's even more amazing is that Canelo moved up and didn't just fight anyone, he fought the king (and won). Then you add onto that how many fights this guy has had, it reminds me of Muay Thai fighters having fought hundreds of fights by their mid-20s. Baukaw for example has close to 300 fights and hes the same age as GGG!
I just wish we had the chance to watch GGG in his true sporting prime, if they'd been able to get him to go pro earlier in his 20's then we could have got some mega fights. At least we have had Lomachenko since he was 25.
 
shevtheblue said:
What's even more amazing is that Canelo moved up and didn't just fight anyone, he fought the king (and won). Then you add onto that how many fights this guy has had, it reminds me of Muay Thai fighters having fought hundreds of fights by their mid-20s. Baukaw for example has close to 300 fights and hes the same age as GGG!
I just wish we had the chance to watch GGG in his true sporting prime, if they'd been able to get him to go pro earlier in his 20's then we could have got some mega fights. At least we have had Lomachenko since he was 25.
Click to expand...
Yeah that is a shame, these are the fights that improve fighters the most too. At least Golovkin will have had 2-3 massive pay days(assuming his promoters aren't shafting him) before all is said and done.

I don't fancy BJS' chances against either of them, he would have been better off trying to line one of them up before they'd fought each other and I still think he would have gotten outclassed or knocked out if he had.
 
Does anyone have a link or is able to point me in the direction of a re-run of the fight (without having to pay BT for the privilege)?

Really looking forward to see it...........

For what it's worth, I scored the first one as a draw
 
Metalartin said:
Yeah that is a shame, these are the fights that improve fighters the most too. At least Golovkin will have had 2-3 massive pay days(assuming his promoters aren't shafting him) before all is said and done.

I don't fancy BJS' chances against either of them, he would have been better off trying to line one of them up before they'd fought each other and I still think he would have gotten outclassed or knocked out if he had.
Click to expand...
There's a couple fighers that GGG and BJS have both fought and GGG has obliterated them both whereas BJS has taken them to decisions. If he waits long enough he might be able to catch GGG on the way down but he won't be able to wait for Canelo. And tbh i don't think he's a big enough name for either of them to bother with now.
 
shevtheblue said:
Octagon/ring control is a real thing in most of the MMA regulations, dependent on state commission. It was my understanding that ring control & aggression if shown to enforce a fighters own style or will gets marked on in boxing, and i think Canello showed a lot of that in this second fight to be fair to him.
Click to expand...
As far as i am aware you need to land the shots clean. I had a quick look on it this is what i found. It kind of in need of the rules on the scoring being changed if you ask me.

  • Effective Aggression – Being aggressive gives the impression of dominance, but unless the boxer is landing shots and not constantly getting countered, it’s not exactly “effective.” Judges look for effective aggression, where the aggressor consistently lands his punches and avoids those from his opponent.
  • Ring Generalship – The fighter who controls the action and enforces his will and style.
  • Defense – How well is a boxer slipping, parrying, and blocking punches? Good defense is important.
So going by that you decide on the fight on those 3 points and the scoring shots too. It may need reviewing.
 
leighton said:
As far as i am aware you need to land the shots clean. I had a quick look on it this is what i found. It kind of in need of the rules on the scoring being changed if you ask me.

  • Effective Aggression – Being aggressive gives the impression of dominance, but unless the boxer is landing shots and not constantly getting countered, it’s not exactly “effective.” Judges look for effective aggression, where the aggressor consistently lands his punches and avoids those from his opponent.
  • Ring Generalship – The fighter who controls the action and enforces his will and style.
  • Defense – How well is a boxer slipping, parrying, and blocking punches? Good defense is important.
So going by that you decide on the fight on those 3 points and the scoring shots too. It may need reviewing.
Click to expand...
I don't think there's any way that boxing would ever change that tbh mate. Joe Rogan suggested on his podcast that MMA adopts 5 judges or even 10, because you can easily get 2 judges out of 3 that can be shit but 3 out of 5 or 6 out of 10 is a lot harder. In MMA, at least in UFC anyway, the judges have nothing to do with the promoter and they are assigned by the governing body of the state. Of course that doesn't mean they can't be corrupt but when bad decisions are given its generally because of the incompetence of the judges. One of the fighters he had on his podcast suggested that there should be constant examinations of the judges and possibly even judges that are not judging the fight but are judging the judges!
 
I don't know about anyone else but having read over most peoples takes from from both sides, how both boxers went about the fight is kind of an admittance in my view from both camps about how close the first fight really was. It looks as though they both made concerted efforts to address things that may have lost them points in the first fight:

1st fight:
GGG coming forward putting Canelo constantly on the back foot with a high punch output but being made to miss a lot and being countered alot, some rounds far too much, which all good judges notice and some will give points for if there's not much between them.
Canelo concentrated on solid defence, making Golovkin miss and countering when the opportunity arose but at points this affected his punch output too much and it also allowed himself to be backed up all fight in the process, which all good judges notice and some will give points for if there's not much between them.

2nd fight:
GGG not wasting half as many punches but allowed Canelo to back him up and take centre of the ring for the majority of the fight.
Canelo chose to come forward not allowing GGG to put him on the back foot. Took cleaner shots this time around(which GGG did in both fights but some simply praise his chin for that?) especially the jab, even got caught with a few of GGG's best shots but took them well and answered them.

Where will they go from there if there's a 3rd fight?
 
Last edited:
shevtheblue said:
I don't think there's any way that boxing would ever change that tbh mate. Joe Rogan suggested on his podcast that MMA adopts 5 judges or even 10, because you can easily get 2 judges out of 3 that can be shit but 3 out of 5 or 6 out of 10 is a lot harder. In MMA, at least in UFC anyway, the judges have nothing to do with the promoter and they are assigned by the governing body of the state. Of course that doesn't mean they can't be corrupt but when bad decisions are given its generally because of the incompetence of the judges. One of the fighters he had on his podcast suggested that there should be constant examinations of the judges and possibly even judges that are not judging the fight but are judging the judges!
Click to expand...

I like Joe Rogan talks a lot of sense at times. I would be in favour of adding 2 more judges to the ring for the fights. They could easily sort that out at the fights. I also argee with the judges being judged. I have seen some score cards being just terrible and so lob sided. Also I would also have the in ring ref scoring the fight too. There seeing it up close and personal. They should have there own score card too.
 
Very sad to hear the news about Enzo Calzaghe. Seemed a great character and only 69.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top