The Conservative Party

[Henkeman]

It's not their own home though, is it? They're social homes, for people who need them the most. And when they're sold off, they don't get replaced because local authority budgets are slashed and councils are prevented from borrowing money to replace them (scheduled to change, thankfully). It's a nasty, nasty backdoor policy which is one of the reasons why we've seen a proliferation of people living on the streets. By the same token, do you think governments should force all landlords to sell their homes?

The most woeful record of council house building was under the Blair/Brown governments. It was oft stated, but entirely true that the Thatcher government in its worst year built more than twice as many houses in a year as Labour did in their entire 13 years in office.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The most woeful record of council house building was under the Blair/Brown governments. It was oft stated, but entirely true that the Thatcher government in its worst year built more than twice as many houses in a year as Labour did in their entire 13 years in office.

But that doesn't fit the "evil Tory" rhetoric, so will be conveniently glossed over, denied, dismissed as being irrelevant/misleading, not Labour's fault, all down to Labour's good work previously... or whatever other useful distraction can be found to hand.

 

[Henkeman]

But that doesn't fit the "evil Tory" rhetoric, so will be conveniently glossed over, denied, dismissed as being irrelevant/misleading, not Labour's fault, all down to Labour's good work previously... or whatever other useful distraction can be found to hand.

Don't get me wrong, the Tories' record on this has been piss poor, but I'm not having the evil Tory shit. It pisses me off no end, and the political moralising that goes on is childish tribalism at best, and sanctimonious arrogance more often.

 

[urban genie]

Deary, deary me. Giving people the right to buy their own homes is a "nasty policy"? I've heard it all now.

The bitterness coming out of some of you lot, you badly need to get laid I think.

Right is in principle a decent policy, but for every piece of social housing sold off a new one at least needed to be built, and that has failed to happen under all governments since the policy first came about.

Exactly the point. I'm a long way from an expert on anything NHS, but I find it hard to believe we couldn't get better results for the same money than we do. And why not look at an insurance system like they have in Europe instead of our current one? Why is that beyond the pale?

We have a mandatory Insurance policy to cover health care and retirement , NI, unfortunately succesive governments have mismanaged and dipped into it.

 

[CityStu]

But that doesn't fit the "evil Tory" rhetoric, so will be conveniently glossed over, denied, dismissed as being irrelevant/misleading, not Labour's fault, all down to Labour's good work previously... or whatever other useful distraction can be found to hand.

Or, even better, that Blair was a red Tory all along.

 

[Henkeman]

We have a mandatory Insuranve policy to cover health care, education amd retirement , NI, unfortunately succesive governments have missmanaged and dipped into it.

I was mildly surprised just now to discover that even some of it is ring-fenced!

 

[Indaparkside]

The most woeful record of council house building was under the Blair/Brown governments. It was oft stated, but entirely true that the Thatcher government in its worst year built more than twice as many houses in a year as Labour did in their entire 13 years in office.

Thatcher the baby milk snatcher horrible nasty bitch may she rot in hell

 

[Fame Monster]

25% is not a "slight" rise. While those evil Tories have presided over barely any kind of rise at all and at a vastly lower level.

I'm all for holding government of either hue to account for their failures, but this is still partisan bollocks.

The 25% rise was a result of inaction while the policies of a previous government took hold, including right-to-buy. When Labour finally addressed it, statutory homelesssness came down to a record low in 2009/10. In 2014/15, accepted homelessness increased by 36% on that figure mainly due to Tory policies and rose again over the next two years so if 25% isn't a steep figure then what would you call the rise that happened under the Tories? Enormous? Unprecedented? Unfortunately, in the real world, halving local authority budgets, ramping up the sale of social housing via right to buy, and capping the levels to which local authorities can borrow to replace the housing they've sold off has real world effects, including putting people on the streets. It's a stain on the country and it's not partisan bollocks when me or every other single homelessness charity point it out.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Or, even better, that Blair was a red Tory all along.

Of course, I'd forgotten that one. The most successful leader they've had in 60 years and they can't stand him. It's quite amusing actually.

 

[SWP's back]

We have a mandatory Insuranve policy to cover health care and retirement , NI, unfortunately succesive governments have mismanaged and dipped into it.

Can you explain the part in bold?

 

[Chippy_boy]

The 25% rise was a result of inaction while the policies of a previous government took hold, including right-to-buy.

Hahahahaha. What did I tell you? Bullshit bingo!

 

[Fame Monster]

Hahahahaha. What did I tell you? Bullshit bingo!

I'd ask you your thoughts on what policies led to that rise but you've not answered my previous question yet.

 

[SWP's back]

Thatcher the baby milk snatcher horrible nasty bitch may she rot in hell

Care to actually answer his point re social housing?

 

[Chippy_boy]

I'd ask you your thoughts on what policies led to that rise but you've not answered my previous question yet.

OK, very good.

 

[SWP's back]

It was oft stated, but entirely true that the Thatcher government in its worst year built more than twice as many houses in a year as Labour did in their entire 13 years in office.

How you blaming the Tories for this @Fame Monster ?

 

[urban genie]

Can you explain the part in bold?

yes

 

[Fame Monster]

The most woeful record of council house building was under the Blair/Brown governments. It was oft stated, but entirely true that the Thatcher government in its worst year built more than twice as many houses in a year as Labour did in their entire 13 years in office.

Even though Blair and Brown brought about a massive fall in homelessness, I'm critical of them doing it through spending rather than investing in social housing. But this is a thread about the Conservative Party and even though we can all wank each other off about how the Tories aren't as evil as they seem, the fact is their policies always lead to increases in homelessness and more importantly, rough sleeping.

 

[Henkeman]

The 25% rise was a result of inaction while the policies of a previous government took hold, including right-to-buy. When Labour finally addressed it, statutory homelesssness came down to a record low in 2009/10. In 2014/15, accepted homelessness increased by 36% on that figure mainly due to Tory policies and rose again over the next two years so if 25% isn't a steep figure then what would you call the rise that happened under the Tories? Enormous? Unprecedented? Unfortunately, in the real world, halving local authority budgets, ramping up the sale of social housing via right to buy, and capping the levels to which local authorities can borrow to replace the housing they've sold off has real world effects, including putting people on the streets. It's a stain on the country and it's not partisan bollocks when me or every other single homelessness charity to point it out.

So what you're claiming is that after 6 years of Labour, it's down to the Tories, but after 13 years of truly pathetic house building and provision by Labour, the subsequent rise under the coalition is down to, oh yes, the Tories.

As for your "accepted homeless" figure, if I'm not mistaken you're taking the entirely different set of figures from Shelter that were an amalgamation of different measures and statistics, and absolutely not the like for like ONS measure. Nice stat mining there.

The reality is that most governments have been woefully inadequate in terms of their housing provision, and Labour especially so given that during the period of their abysmal policies that led to sweet FA in construction, they also oversaw a huge rise in population and failed to deal with it.

Their belated realisation of the godawful mess they'd made of it and decision to build houses again at the tail end of their administration was continued by the coalition. And no, it still isn't enough. But your determination to lay the blame on one side and exonerate the other, in a complete refusal to acknowledge the facts and culpability, is indeed partisan bollocks.

 

[Scottyboi]

Even though Blair and Brown brought about a massive fall in homelessness, I'm critical of them doing it through spending rather than investing in social housing. But this is a thread about the Conservative Party and even though we can all wank each other off about how the Tories aren't as evil as they seem, the fact is their policies always lead to increases in homelessness and more importantly, rough sleeping.

Did a world wide recession and job losses not contribute to it a bit?

 

[Henkeman]

Even though Blair and Brown brought about a massive fall in homelessness, I'm critical of them doing it through spending rather than investing in social housing. But this is a thread about the Conservative Party and even though we can all wank each other off about how the Tories aren't as evil as they seem, the fact is their policies always lead to increases in homelessness and more importantly, rough sleeping.

Guess what? I'm critical of them too. I'm also critical of those who draw a line and blame the Tories for everything thereon in while also blaming the Tories for everything under Labour.