Are Labour a total shambles now as an opposition?

It’s not a right wing myth but an uncomfortable macro economic fact for the Left that higher income tax leads to reduced net disposable income meaning demand is taken out of the economy reducing growth.

As for higher tax economies than the U.K. with higher economic growth, name them

It is a right-wing myth. When countries tax individuals, they don’t put the money into a pot and burn it. They redistribute it to public sector employees who provide an important public service AND spend the money in the economy. The state also uses that money to pay for roads, bridges, internet connectivity, railways and many other massive infrastructure projects that enable far more economic growth than would have been achieved had the money not been taxed in the first place. It’s true that sometimes a state can spend the money on things that lead to less economic growth than had the money not been taxed in the first place but if you look at national spending sheets, this is the exception and definitely not the rule.

As for countries with a bigger tax burden that have higher growth than the U.K., do we really need to do this? There are so many it really would be labouring the point.
 
I'm afraid I don't follow what you're saying here, it seems you would impose a 'Predatory' tax on the likes of Amazon,
by threatening to sequestrate their property, am I correct? I'm not sure such an act would be passed by parliament,
and a company like these could remove to another location abroad to nullify it.

It is always within the power of a state to ultimatly deny any company to have a stake in it's economy if it would not abbide to it's rules.

It may always be in the best interrest of the state to extract a "maximum amount of tax out of a maximum amount of bussiness" as to ultimatly extract a maximum amount of tax. Obviously however that also means that if too high taxes kill bussiness that it might prevent to get that max tax, so therefore i formulated it similarly to the mechanics that determine the maximum amount of profit gained from a product where it regards "finding the greatest amount of people that will pay that silly expensive price". Aka supposedly one needs to set a "realistic" tax rate.

However bussiness otoh has objectives perpendicular to the state in atleast that perspective where the state would represent the interrests of the public. As Thorstein Veblen would have said: "it's always sound bussiness to take any obtainable net gain, at any cost and at any risk to the community".
Basicly this means that foreign capitalists are incentivised to be greedy and take as much profit that they can take out of the British economy that preferably the Brittish state would tax for the benifit of providing services to its people. it also means that those who would threaten to leave the country for virtue of wanting to make "even more profit" could have their stake in the economy taken away by the state and passed trough to opportunists that would take pleasure with lower margins. That could work atleast.

True that at some point you might want to ask: For what price will capitalist entrepeneurs want to do it for us? But actually it must be noted that with the existance of the modern fractional banking system and national banks (and note the Brits still have their own pound) that it essentially does not even require capitalist entrepeneurs to have investments in the country as the nation can simply create it's own money and that will not prove unwise if it can also invest it in parts of the economy that are not exploited but can be in a profitable way.

I'm not sure how i should coin this concept, i think it's something along the lines of "nationalised liberal economy". Basicly what you do is boot out all the foreign bussinesses that won't provide the max tax that you can realisticly extract from them by stimulating capable people from youre own poppulation to take over that bussiness as much that you stimulate those foreigners to sell, and the idea of that is that the goverment can excert much more effecient taxaction upon a economy run by it's own transparent and accountable nationals atleast to the limit that it won't also send it's own required national managers packing, this atleast compared to foreign managers that will likely send part of the money abroad. At this point the state needs to take over as an sort of investment bank for the economy aswell and provide it's national entrepeneurs with loans to ofset the fallback of foreign invesmtent but in theory that should be possible.

Threateing to sequestrate propperty as you say would be rather "in the face", really not nessecary neither when in theory one can easily force foreing bussiness to sell out when crushed under perhaps rather specific taxes. The real point is that "if they threaten to leave, no worries as we have build a system that will cope with that, and au contraire because this system will likely even thrive on such things". I think that aproach could be possible and succesfull providing that the goverment does the required organisation.

That said, i'm pretty sure the wealthy elite in Brittain would not prefer a goverment that would tax them in such a way as to just not stimulating them enough yet to leave the country, i'm sure they would always want to rake in more profit eitherhow perpendicular to the interrest of the state, so i don't think it will be stimulated to happen as long as youre national bussinessmen find it perfectly ok for foreigners to screw youre country over if atleast that puts them in the same boat of getting lots of profits. No'r may youre politicians find it all that bad on a personal level to receive lots of funds from private bussiness even if that doesn't nessecarily favour the public atleast not in a way where they would be aware of it and give it an ellectoral cost. So what you need is people who arn't aligned with bussiness interrests and are not corruptable by that method.

If all that is done right another thing that might fall victim to this is consumer choice. Suddently is much more about buying British products and benifiting the national economy by that route however the tarrifs on foreign products safe for required resources would likely be big and lack of scale might reduce the competitiveness of british goods abroad.
Great for employement though all this i wager.
 
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Labour is in a better position now than it has been for the last 20 years all it has to do now is run with the Australian immigration system, bring in only what you need and reduce the huge pool of unemployed
So are you advocating no deal? Because a trade deal comes with free movement ad an add on.
 
So are you advocating no deal? Because a trade deal comes with free movement ad an add on.
Deal or no deal it matters not all will be temporary and will cost according to who you want to believe, but all will be cheaper than bailing Greece Turkey Italy and Spain out in the long term
 
Deal or no deal it matters not all will be temporary and will cost according to who you want to believe, but all will be cheaper than bailing Greece Turkey Italy and Spain out in the long term
Not for me because i will be out of work within 3 months.
 
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What is to be sarcastic? previous Labour leaders sold the British people to the thieving banking sector, and tied to remove themselves from the Labour movement

Oh god you’re being serious.

Previous Labour leaders won three majority governments and oversaw the great increase in living standards this country has ever seen.

Corbyn can’t get ahead of the worst Tory government of all time and is failing as an opposition to the Tory’s Brexit.

Also, there isn’t an unemployment issue, there’s a working standards issue in terms of permanent contracts and pay. We need to improve what people
at the bottom earn.
 
Not for me because i will be out of work within 3 months.
you have my sympathy mate i voted us to join and am proud of my vote, but now is the right time to jump ship, It is the micro chip and our foolish belief that big business would act reparable to employees and the country that has cost jobs
 
you have my sympathy mate i voted us to join and am proud of my vote, but now is the right time to jump ship, It is the micro chip and our foolish belief that big business would act reparable to employees and the country that has cost jobs

It will also cost jobs if the small and medium size businesses, the ones that keep the country ticking over, have increased costs forcing already small margins down
 
Oh god you’re being serious.

Previous Labour leaders won three majority governments and oversaw the great increase in living standards this country has ever seen.

Corbyn can’t get ahead of the worst Tory government of all time and is failing as an opposition to the Tory’s Brexit.

Also, there isn’t an unemployment issue, there’s a working standards issue in terms of permanent contracts and pay. We need to improve what people
at the bottom earn.
The Milibands those tory shits from Oxford university took Labour to a new low, and only a lunatic thinks you can improve pay or conditions with the huge pool of unskilled that we have
 
Labour are exactly as they were, niether a shambles or overly effective.

Corbyns error is his mistrust of the MSM and so has steered labour to campaign mainly at grass roots level and on social media, unfortunately, though this is effective, many people who still rely on the papers and bbc news etc are not reached.
 
It is a right-wing myth. When countries tax individuals, they don’t put the money into a pot and burn it. They redistribute it to public sector employees who provide an important public service AND spend the money in the economy. The state also uses that money to pay for roads, bridges, internet connectivity, railways and many other massive infrastructure projects that enable far more economic growth than would have been achieved had the money not been taxed in the first place. It’s true that sometimes a state can spend the money on things that lead to less economic growth than had the money not been taxed in the first place but if you look at national spending sheets, this is the exception and definitely not the rule.

As for countries with a bigger tax burden that have higher growth than the U.K., do we really need to do this? There are so many it really would be labouring the point.

There is an optimum rate of tax that maximises revenue for the exchequer. Increasing beyond that actually reduces revenues because of the impact on growth as explained above.

As for the risible response on countries with a higher tax burden with greater growth, your failure to provide an example amply proves my point.

Economics is clearly not your strong suit
 
depends where your morality lies I suppose. I don't think greed is good - in any respect.

I think capitalism presumes that greed is usefull atleast when it can be balanced to the point where one's greed doesn't nessecarily unable the other to get his greed. I have some scrutiny on those principles myself. It basicly goes into matters of competition and supposedly chasing excelence.

I can however tell you when "unbalanced greed" is deffinatly not good, it's where the greed of one can create unreasonable and forcefull misery for another, and such is not unseen for what regards capitalism trough history. When you consider that the economic interrest of individual capitalists are inheritly perpendicular to that of society as a whole then indeed the mission of the state becomes: "always give the capitalists as few handouts as needed" whereas it's obvious that the mission of capitalist should be to gain maximum utillity out of economic processes for personal benifit if needed at the expense of society.

What you don't need is politicians creating an economic enviroment in which the gap between the rich and the poor will continuisly grow, because thats basicly a signal that you have a bunch of corrupt politicians that are selling out basicly. What you rather want is Politicians that will serve the public interrest at the reasonably attainable expense of the capitalists. Milk the capitalists just as much as needed to squeeze the most out of them withought causing trouble.
 
Your ‘morality’ is at best no more than a failure to accept how the world works and at worst pious virtue signalling

Macro economics is not about morality but about ensuring the right conditions are created to allow people to realise their aspirations through hard work and commitment and collectively to ensure economic growth is obtained to pay for the things we take for granted like the NHS

It’s immoral to expect the hard working to subsidise the feckless and the indolent

As for ‘greed’ - your word not mine - you seem to equate it with aspiration
 
The Milibands those tory shits from Oxford university took Labour to a new low, and only a lunatic thinks you can improve pay or conditions with the huge pool of unskilled that we have

Yes that we’ll know Tory shit “Red Ed”. What a bastard he is.

If you think we should reduce unemployment as a priority over training and improved pay for those already in work, you have absolutely no idea what the current employment market looks like.
 
Your ‘morality’ is at best no more than a failure to accept how the world works and at worst pious virtue signalling

Macro economics is not about morality but about ensuring the right conditions are created to allow people to realise their aspirations through hard work and commitment and collectively to ensure economic growth is obtained to pay for the things we take for granted like the NHS

It’s immoral to expect the hard working to subsidise the feckless and the indolent

As for ‘greed’ - your word not mine - you seem to equate it with aspiration


Thank you for exposing your true self in that one post my friend. We cannot at any costs allow the present way of doing things to be challenged because you think that such change will only affect the wealthy - all the others are feckless ??? What an absolute cnutish view of the world !! You propose that helping your fellow man is not the job of the well to do and in any event they aren't worth it because they are where they are due to their own actions or inaction more likely?

Flies in the face of just about what every religion teaches - you are aware of the way the Scandinavians view social care and welfare and reward and how they are famously top of most surveys into how happy and grounded their populations are? They don't mind helping their fellow citizens out and paying for the privilege.
 
Thank you for exposing your true self in that one post my friend. We cannot at any costs allow the present way of doing things to be challenged because you think that such change will only affect the wealthy - all the others are feckless ??? What an absolute cnutish view of the world !! You propose that helping your fellow man is not the job of the well to do and in any event they aren't worth it because they are where they are due to their own actions or inaction more likely?

Flies in the face of just about what every religion teaches - you are aware of the way the Scandinavians view social care and welfare and reward and how they are famously top of most surveys into how happy and grounded their populations are? They don't mind helping their fellow citizens out and paying for the privilege.

Might you actually read my comments instead of setting up straw men arguments solely it seems to affect self indulgent faux outrage?
 

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