Away tickets

[GortonBlue62]

Colin, is the reverse not true also? Why shouldn't you get points for matches attended 15 years ago?

Only one of the statements is true and you are correct.

The current system rewards loyalty over a long period of time. It is by definition meritocratic.

The one concern about newcomers struggling to catch up up is valid. It can be addressed by a rolling system.

Abuses of the system will persist in any modified system and need to be addressed by the club separately and as a matter of urgency.

The proposal to abolish points for away games is wrong - it freezes the system as it is, helps no one and solves nothing.

The only other sensible suggestion I've heard is to award different numbers of points depending on the game; so for example 0 points for Old Trafford, 50 points for a midweek League Cup tie in December at Swansea. In the early days of the scheme this was done. I seem to remember getting 100 points for going to Oldham to see a Manchester City XI (Nigel De Jong and the EDS) play - it was the first game in England after we'd won the league in 2012.

 

[TonyColemansbagofapples]

That's true but I see many young fans at away games. Where are they getting their tickets from?

 

[fathellensbellend]

logical solutions are, make the points o a 5 year rolling system, makes the points earnt relevent,and lapsed away supporters drop down the queue while loyal ones maintain their position, reward supporting the cup schemes. Award points based upon the games attractiveness home and away, Try and stop complete randoms getting tickets for plum away games, and target these tickets for youngsters, and maybe 100 or so up for grabs, for anyone to apply. The issues only really apply to a handful of games.

 

[cptaidan88]

Let's take a hypothetical situation involving two fans.

Fan A had a season ticket in 2002 when the points scheme started. He/she went to most games, were on the Cup Schemes, Platinum etc. By 2016 they had 20k points. Then they stopped going to aways and only went to home games so haven't been to an away game in 2/3 years. Probably got 21k points now.

Fan B is a young fan, who got their first season ticket 4 or 5 years ago. They've not got the points so they scrounged away tickets and have been to pretty well every away game for the last 2/3 seasons but only got the points for those few games that went to their points level or that they got through their branch.

Who's more deserving of away tickets? I'd say it was Fan B but the points says it's Fan A.

I think we're all just struggling to comprehend how stopping giving points completely is going to help fan B in that situation?

 

[blue b4 the moon]

I've been looking at how other clubs do it.

Rags have a ballot, with about 10% going to their hospitality members and about 80% going to season ticket holders. Depending on the game, 5-10% are kept by the club.
Liverpool do it on away games attended in the previous season. 12+ gets you to the top of the queue.

Arsenal use a similar system based on away games but it's done on current plus previous 2 years rather than just the previous year's, like Liverpool

Spurs & Chelsea use loyalty points, with both using differential points to reward different types of games. At Chelsea it's a fixed scale with home and away games counting. 1 for top 6 games & CL/EL knock-out stages, 3 for other PL games and 5 for domestic cup and Euro group stage games. All given for home and away and it's current season only so no carry-over of points.

Spurs depends on the distance generally but all top 6 games, plus other London ones (West Ham/Watford) are 1 point. Somewhere like Newcastle & Burnley would be 4 points. They use a current plus 4 previous years system. They currently give just under 10% to hospitality members but that's going up to 13% when they finally move to the new stadium. So compared to them and the rags the near 20% we give hospitality is well out of line.

I quite like Chelsea's.

No direct mention of supporters clubs in this post.... Is it only us that cream off 20%?

 

[Bill]

Why ahould you get credit for games you attended 15 years ago?

Not arsed but that is how the system works.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

No direct mention of supporters clubs in this post.... Is it only us that cream off 20%?

I couldn't see any mention of supporters clubs for any of the other clubs. But why use the phrase "cream off" when the tickets are (in the vast majority of cases) going to genuine fans? We've got so hung up on the points system and the sense of entitlement that it seems to bring that we forget there are many genuine fans who haven't got 18k+ points and maybe can't afford every away game or don't have the money to go to a CL away. Why shouldn't people have the chance to go to an occasional game? Why should away games be a closed shop?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The system works for me so I'm not arsed.

Fixed for you Bill. ;-)

 

[bluestud]

Ditch Platinum, money shouldn't buy entitlement!

 

[fathellensbellend]

Fixed for you Bill. ;-)

it should work for him, he's made the effort

 

[squirtyflower]

Why shouldn't people have the chance to go to an occasional game?

Indeed, and they can, eight games so far have gone to ZERO points, and the Cup Final will be another.

The issue is they want United, Liverpool, Chelsea etc

 

[blue b4 the moon]

I couldn't see any mention of supporters clubs for any of the other clubs. But why use the phrase "cream off" when the tickets are (in the vast majority of cases) going to genuine fans? We've got so hung up on the points system and the sense of entitlement that it seems to bring that we forget there are many genuine fans who haven't got 18k+ points and maybe can't afford every away game or don't have the money to go to a CL away. Why shouldn't people have the chance to go to an occasional game? Why should away games be a closed shop?

Ok maybe cream off isn't the right wording...

 

[The blue phantom]

Ok maybe cream off isn't the right wording...

Its def the right word, I guess the 60% we currently get for away tickets is never going to increase that's near certain and pretty much fuck all we can do abt it, fair enough if as PB has said the 5% for the young uns isn't now coming out of our seasoncard allocations. Small victory.

Overall though I still think it's a pisstake that 40% is kept back for Corporate, Supporter clubs & Internal. But hey ho.

 

[GortonBlue62]

If we started from scratch now with everyone on zero points I guarantee that in 5 years ...

1) the people who now have over 20K points would be back at the top of the pile, and

2) the people moaning that 'it's just not fair we can never catch up' would still be moaning about the iniquity of it all.

 

[Bill]

Fixed for you Bill. ;-)

didn't always work for me Colin, had to source tickets from wherever, stood in the away end at the swamp with my girls. that was not good.
Steve King (R.I.P.) used to help when he could bless him.

 

[Bill]

If we started from scratch now with everyone on zero points I guarantee that in 5 years ...

1) the people who now have over 20K points would be back at the top of the pile, and

2) the people moaning that 'it's just not fair we can never catch up' would still be moaning about the iniquity of it all.

exactly.

 

[Eccles Blue]

Let's take a hypothetical situation involving two fans.

Fan A had a season ticket in 2002 when the points scheme started. He/she went to most games, were on the Cup Schemes, Platinum etc. By 2016 they had 20k points. Then they stopped going to aways and only went to home games so haven't been to an away game in 2/3 years. Probably got 21k points now.

Fan B is a young fan, who got their first season ticket 4 or 5 years ago. They've not got the points so they scrounged away tickets and have been to pretty well every away game for the last 2/3 seasons but only got the points for those few games that went to their points level or that they got through their branch.

Who's more deserving of away tickets? I'd say it was Fan B but the points says it's Fan A.

Maybe Fan A has a very legitimate reason for not being able to go to away matches anymore? Marriage, mortgage, young children, illness? Why should they be told they are not deserving of away tickets?

Personally I could be Fan A although I do still go to some away matches. I am not as able to go to all the away matches I used to, like European aways and most London aways (although I don't really miss not going to London) and I never went to the Rags but didn't buy a ticket and pass it on either. I am not a points whore. So I am not deserving of an away ticket. Thanks for that PB!!

Personally I think both Fan A and Fan B are deserving but hey I've only been supporting City for 60 years!!! What do I know.

The points system, as has been stated many times in this thread, will never suit everyone. That my friends is life. Life isn't fair, life is sometimes a mess. Let's just accept that.

 

[GortonBlue62]

Maybe Fan A has a very legitimate reason for not being able to go to away matches anymore? Marriage, mortgage, young children, illness? Why should they be told they are not deserving of away tickets?

Personally I could be Fan A although I do still go to some away matches. I am not as able to go to all the away matches I used to, like European aways and most London aways (although I don't really miss not going to London) and I never went to the Rags but didn't buy a ticket and pass it on either. I am not a points whore. So I am not deserving of an away ticket. Thanks for that PB!!

Personally I think both Fan A and Fan B are deserving but hey I've only been supporting City for 60 years!!! What do I know.

The points system, as has been stated many times in this thread, will never suit everyone. That my friends is life. Life isn't fair, life is sometimes a mess. Let's just accept that.

The other obvious point is that as FanA is not going to away games anymore, he isn't taking up an away ticket anymore.

 

[blue_85]

Let's take a hypothetical situation involving two fans.

Fan A had a season ticket in 2002 when the points scheme started. He/she went to most games, were on the Cup Schemes, Platinum etc. By 2016 they had 20k points. Then they stopped going to aways and only went to home games so haven't been to an away game in 2/3 years. Probably got 21k points now.

Fan B is a young fan, who got their first season ticket 4 or 5 years ago. They've not got the points so they scrounged away tickets and have been to pretty well every away game for the last 2/3 seasons but only got the points for those few games that went to their points level or that they got through their branch.

Who's more deserving of away tickets? I'd say it was Fan B but the points says it's Fan A.

I would say both are far more deserving than Fan C who hardly even went to home games before but now buys tunnel club season ticket and gets to any away game he wants (and sells on those he's not interested in)

 

[fathellensbellend]

I would say both are far more deserving than Fan C who hardly even went to home games before but now buys tunnel club season ticket and gets to any away game he wants (and sells on those he's not interested in)

what is becoming apparent is that for some reason, corporate/thomas cook fans seem to be exempt from being expected to make any sacrifices, be it at home or domestically, while loyalty point holders are asked to be fair and understanding to any changes. It appears we are all even, but some more than others.