Football Leaks/Der Spiegel articles

CharliesRightPeg said:
De spiegel have an article on the extradition of Rui Pinto, they're scared that the Portuguese authorities will destroy all the stolen documents as he tried extortion before becoming a whistle blower

So all that lovely evidence gone....
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I wonder if the influence of a nation state to another may have an influence on this?
 
Steve68 said:
We’re in trouble I fear. Along with potentially many others. The FFP rules were crafted to maintain the old cartel and that forced clubs like us to bend the rules. They needed breaking and they need to go but if people at the club were dumb enough to put all this in unencrypted emails then my guess is a transfer ban and squad size penalties are on the way.

In this day and age for the club and the wider business not to be using encryption is pretty dumb.
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Any attempt by UEFA to re-punish us will be met with a injunction that will tie them up for years The early leaks indicated the HH was prepared to take this course, but an agreement was reached and in the Chairman's words we "took a pinch" There will be no more pinching
 
schfc6 said:
Yes, but didn’t they find us guilty of such ‘dishonesty’? And punish us?
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No, they found us guilty of failing FFP and fined us accordingly. However, the issue now is that they made that original decision based on the assumption that Etihad, Aabar et al, were “legitimate” (for want of a better word) sponsors fronting up their own money, when in fact about 4/5ths of that sponsorship money was being covered by His Highness. The argument is that had they had been aware of this, they would have hit us with a different (and presumably more draconian) punishment.

This ends one way now. I have no doubt that the intention is to ban us - and for a lot longer than a year - but the decision to make that move rests on whether they then think they have the law on their side when it comes to FFP, because City would unquestionably then challenge its legality and make a suitably eye watering claim for damages. Ball’s in their court (no pun intended). I just hope that we have been as devious as they have in terms of “obtaining” incriminating evidence.....
 
Exeter Blue I am here said:
No, they found us guilty of failing FFP and fined us accordingly. However, the issue now is that they made that original decision based on the assumption that Etihad, Aabar et al, were “legitimate” (for want of a better word) sponsors fronting up their own money, when in fact about 4/5ths of that sponsorship money was being covered by His Highness. The argument is that had they had been aware of this, they would have hit us with a different (and presumably more draconian) punishment.

This ends one way now. I have no doubt that the intention is to ban us - and for a lot longer than a year - but the decision to make that move rests on whether they then think they have the law on their side when it comes to FFP, because City would unquestionably then challenge its legality and make a suitably eye watering claim for damages. Ball’s in their court (no pun intended). I just hope that we have been as devious as they have in terms of “obtaining” incriminating evidence.....
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Etihad have published their accounts which I understand shows the payment for sponsorship to us, they would have some difficulty in arguing that one. Furthermore UEFA used the top name accountants to peruse our figures when considering sanctions in 2014 it would be difficult to imagine that the Accountants wouldn't have covered themselves when reporting
 
M18CTID said:
Fixed that for you mate. If anyone is doing any brainwashing it's that wanker Harris. He proves just how easy it is to get so many lemmings swallowing his bullshit when you give clueless wankers a platform to spout their shite on social media. To date, I've never seen that whopper go into all the intricacies of the actual regs whereas PB does, yet the wanker claims to be some kind of expert on the subject. Plenty of City fans have a bigger understanding of FFP than that c*nt ever will.
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This in a nutshell. He knows he is inferior to PB on the subject matter, so he deflects or attempts to ridicule a person who has spent the last decade basically doing a Masters on FFP.

He's a shouty man with no platform outside of Twitter (him and two billion other know-nowts)

Sporting Intelligence, you say?

Perhaps because he can't get an actual proper job with a credible media outlet.

Same goes for Duncan Castles. The Daily Record? Seriously?

I can only assume The Washington Post must have lost his dissertation on monkey vivisection and primate bowel habits.
 
Exeter Blue I am here said:
No, they found us guilty of failing FFP and fined us accordingly. However, the issue now is that they made that original decision based on the assumption that Etihad, Aabar et al, were “legitimate” (for want of a better word) sponsors fronting up their own money, when in fact about 4/5ths of that sponsorship money was being covered by His Highness. The argument is that had they had been aware of this, they would have hit us with a different (and presumably more draconian) punishment.

This ends one way now. I have no doubt that the intention is to ban us - and for a lot longer than a year - but the decision to make that move rests on whether they then think they have the law on their side when it comes to FFP, because City would unquestionably then challenge its legality and make a suitably eye watering claim for damages. Ball’s in their court (no pun intended). I just hope that we have been as devious as they have in terms of “obtaining” incriminating evidence.....
Click to expand...

Not having a pop and not suggesting you're wrong that it might end in a ban but you always seem to post an overly negative viewpoint regarding this topic. It's been explained that it's none of UEFA's business where a sponsor's money comes from. It's just up to UEFA to decide which deals are related/not related party transactions, and a fair value is then applied to those that are considered to be related party transactions. If the state of Abu Dhabi wants to bail out those companies with a cash injection to meet their financial obligations then they have every right to and there's nothing wrong with that, plus Etihad have killed dead the allegations. In any case, the suggestion that the money has come from our owner is completely and utterly unproven and it's been pointed out that His Highness doesn't refer to Sheikh Mansour.

Now it's entirely possible of course that given UEFA's previous for shifting the goalposts on FFP and their ongoing shifting of the goalposts regarding PSG's main sponsorship deal that they could end up slapping us with a ban when it's not even warranted but they'd be risking a huge shitstorm if they went down that route. Let's also not forget that there's a possible whole new narrative developing too with the arrest and extradition of the hacker himself, who appears to have been doing this not out of the goodness of his own heart, but to profit from it through extortion, blackmail, and possibly even brown envelopes from those with an agenda against our club.
 
Gordyola said:
I wonder if the influence of a nation state to another may have an influence on this?
Click to expand...


↑
De spiegel have an article on the extradition of Rui Pinto, they're scared that the Portuguese authorities will destroy all the stolen documents as he tried extortion before becoming a whistle blower

So all that lovely evidence gone....
I wonder if the influence of a nation state to another may have an influence on this?


like i said before stolen information is worthless by a hacker in a court of law ?? and unless it has come from the FBI or MI5 it can not be used to convict somebody, how can it if a hacker can steal information then he can plant information and who is to believed, somebody has done wrong in the first place by stealing it ??? a court of law would laugh it out of hand ??

its now become useless information and should be not taken as the truth, yes it makes good headlines in the media world but a court order will stop that ?? and also make the publisher liable if they can not prove otherwise, manchester city should be taking them to court when they are dragging our name through the mud, it would take one court order to stop it all, the rest would shit themselves knowing the power and money our owners have
 
laserblue said:
Last week the DM online football page led with the story that City could be banned from the Champions League following more Der Spiegel allegations. Today there's no mention of the arrest and extradition of Rui Pinto who is accused of extortion, illegally obtaining documention by hacking emails and hacking two accounts in the Cayman Islands which purely coincidentally resulted in 268,000 Euros ending up in his bank account. Or that the Spanish and French police, as well as the Portuguese, also want him extradited to them. I'm sure it's just an oversight.
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You watch, we will have tried getting some dirt on the Rags accounts and we will have paid the fucker :)
 
M18CTID said:
Not having a pop and not suggesting you're wrong that it might end in a ban but you always seem to post an overly negative viewpoint regarding this topic. It's been explained that it's none of UEFA's business where a sponsor's money comes from. It's just up to UEFA to decide which deals are related/not related party transactions, and a fair value is then applied to those that are considered to be related party transactions. If the state of Abu Dhabi wants to bail out those companies with a cash injection to meet their financial obligations then they have every right to and there's nothing wrong with that, plus Etihad have killed dead the allegations. In any case, the suggestion that the money has come from our owner is completely and utterly unproven and it's been pointed out that His Highness doesn't refer to Sheikh Mansour.

Now it's entirely possible of course that given UEFA's previous for shifting the goalposts on FFP and their ongoing shifting of the goalposts regarding PSG's main sponsorship deal that they could end up slapping us with a ban when it's not even warranted but they'd be risking a huge shitstorm if they went down that route. Let's also not forget that there's a possible whole new narrative developing too with the arrest and extradition of the hacker himself, who appears to have been doing this not out of the goodness of his own heart, but to profit from it through extortion, blackmail, and possibly even brown envelopes from those with an agenda against our club.
Click to expand...

The whole thing about who His Highness refers to in the documents published is very interesting: was it an error in etiquette or not? If it refers to the ruler of AD supporting his businesses, it goes beyond UEFA's remit, IMO.
 
M18CTID said:
Not having a pop and not suggesting you're wrong that it might end in a ban but you always seem to post an overly negative viewpoint regarding this topic. It's been explained that it's none of UEFA's business where a sponsor's money comes from. It's just up to UEFA to decide which deals are related/not related party transactions, and a fair value is then applied to those that are considered to be related party transactions. If the state of Abu Dhabi wants to bail out those companies with a cash injection to meet their financial obligations then they have every right to and there's nothing wrong with that, plus Etihad have killed dead the allegations. In any case, the suggestion that the money has come from our owner is completely and utterly unproven and it's been pointed out that His Highness doesn't refer to Sheikh Mansour.

Now it's entirely possible of course that given UEFA's previous for shifting the goalposts on FFP and their ongoing shifting of the goalposts regarding PSG's main sponsorship deal that they could end up slapping us with a ban when it's not even warranted but they'd be risking a huge shitstorm if they went down that route. Let's also not forget that there's a possible whole new narrative developing too with the arrest and extradition of the hacker himself, who appears to have been doing this not out of the goodness of his own heart, but to profit from it through extortion, blackmail, and possibly even brown envelopes from those with an agenda against our club.
Click to expand...

I think that's about right.
I do however think that UEFA probably have some more generic reg that they could take action under, for breaking the spirit of the regs (for want of a better term), if they think there's enough info to back them up. Exeter Blue seems to expect they'll drum something up! If City have misrepresented things in some way in their submissions, I could see that as being likely to break a reg.

Cunningham (in the i) said he asked a solicitor who has told him that the info may still be useable, even if it's weakened by how it came to light - of course, he is probably talking of court proceedings, rather than UEFA panels, so comment on the useability may not be true to the same degree (UEFA probably need less proof/certainty).
 
ancoats said:
↑like i said before stolen information is worthless by a hacker in a court of law ?? a
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But FFP isn't law, it is the rules of a competition signed up to by the participants and hence more like a contract, so the rules of admissibility in court of law don't apply. Hence, UEFA themselves decide what is admissable or not. UEFA's decision could be challenged in CAS but that is an arbitration service not a law court so who knows?

The only way this ends up in the law courts is if someone challenges the very basis of FFP under competition law (and the emails wouldn't have any bearing on that) - which is what UEFA are probably most worried about because you never know how things like that are going to be judged. Hence, they probably want to try and make this go away (to protect FFP) whilst somehow being seen to be giving City a smack on the wrist. Not easy and probably the reason why we are hearing nothing at the moment.
 
OB1 said:
The whole thing about who His Highness refers to in the documents published is very interesting: was it an error in etiquette or not? If it refers to the ruler of AD supporting his businesses, it goes beyond UEFA's remit, IMO.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if it was an error in etiquette, it's something we can tailor to suit.
 
M18CTID said:
Not having a pop and not suggesting you're wrong that it might end in a ban but you always seem to post an overly negative viewpoint regarding this topic. It's been explained that it's none of UEFA's business where a sponsor's money comes from. It's just up to UEFA to decide which deals are related/not related party transactions, and a fair value is then applied to those that are considered to be related party transactions. If the state of Abu Dhabi wants to bail out those companies with a cash injection to meet their financial obligations then they have every right to and there's nothing wrong with that, plus Etihad have killed dead the allegations. In any case, the suggestion that the money has come from our owner is completely and utterly unproven and it's been pointed out that His Highness doesn't refer to Sheikh Mansour.

Now it's entirely possible of course that given UEFA's previous for shifting the goalposts on FFP and their ongoing shifting of the goalposts regarding PSG's main sponsorship deal that they could end up slapping us with a ban when it's not even warranted but they'd be risking a huge shitstorm if they went down that route. Let's also not forget that there's a possible whole new narrative developing too with the arrest and extradition of the hacker himself, who appears to have been doing this not out of the goodness of his own heart, but to profit from it through extortion, blackmail, and possibly even brown envelopes from those with an agenda against our club.
Click to expand...

No arguments from me, and just to stress that I haven’t said we will be banned, merely that that will be UEFA’s (or rather the cartel’s) preferred outcome
 
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