Var debate 2019/20

UEFA provided clarification for the Telegraph where they highlight that ref's are told to rule out goals that directly go in off the hand. Yesterday the ref clearly indicated that he can't see a hand ball and it came off his hip. First of all I find it ridiculous that he is shown the worst angle. This is down to the interpretation of the referee to apply the rule and depending on who it is you get a different outcome. Not surprising the rule is changing because there is no difference in the ball ultimately going in via the hand or from the hand assisting in the control of it. If he permitted the goal then his decision raises an important question about what is offside. Aguero was ruled offside, which was correctly overturned according to the rule. However, if we compare it to the hand ball offence by Llorente one can rightfully argue that Eriksen's initiated pass barely clipping the City player still would have made it to Aguero and provided no difference to the outcome. Should that be offside? He did not gain an unfair advantage, and in no way greater of an advantage than Llorente with his use of his arm permitting the correct ricochet for their goal. If we are applying offsides by the book then how did Son's goal in their home game count? Half his body is offside but it is not deemed as a clear enough for VAR to conclude it is an obvious error. Which part of the body do you count as offside, because they clearly looked at his feet only otherwise the conclusion would have been that he is offside. Harry Kane was offside vs Chelsea in the same manner as Son but people using VAR ignored that you can score with the upper half of your body. Then again Llorente being allowed to use his makes for the argument that under current rules you are allowed to use the arm in assistance to score. Yet again that means that Son is most definitely offside. Then we need to discuss the referee ignoring Rose effecting Bernardo's ability to score. He makes no contact with the ball, (referee did not give a corner hence indicating that Rose did not play the ball) but the referee decides that Rose flying into Bernardo is deemed as fair try at preventing a goal. The issue is not with VAR, but with application of the rules by referees
 
City need to ask UEFA some serious questions about last nights use of VAR.
1. Why could the var officials not see the hand ball. I presume they would have Bt sports footage. The camera facing out of goal picked it up beautifully.they did not need to refer it to pitch side.
2.why was that footage not made available to the ref. SURELY you make all angles available to him....now he may or may not have allowed goal BUT in the first leg our penalty came from an unintentional hand ball as Spurs goal came last night.
3. Why when we all saw the angle at home was it not available.

Honestly we should join whatever new comp Fifa push for. A champs league without us is devalued
 
Kokonut1307 said:
UEFA provided clarification for the Telegraph where they highlight that ref's are told to rule out goals that directly go in off the hand. Yesterday the ref clearly indicated that he can't see a hand ball and it came off his hip. First of all I find it ridiculous that he is shown the worst angle. This is down to the interpretation of the referee to apply the rule and depending on who it is you get a different outcome. Not surprising the rule is changing because there is no difference in the ball ultimately going in via the hand or from the hand assisting in the control of it. If he permitted the goal then his decision raises an important question about what is offside. Aguero was ruled offside, which was correctly overturned according to the rule. However, if we compare it to the hand ball offence by Llorente one can rightfully argue that Eriksen's initiated pass barely clipping the City player still would have made it to Aguero and provided no difference to the outcome. Should that be offside? He did not gain an unfair advantage, and in no way greater of an advantage than Llorente with his use of his arm permitting the correct ricochet for their goal. If we are applying offsides by the book then how did Son's goal in their home game count? Half his body is offside but it is not deemed as a clear enough for VAR to conclude it is an obvious error. Which part of the body do you count as offside, because they clearly looked at his feet only otherwise the conclusion would have been that he is offside. Harry Kane was offside vs Chelsea in the same manner as Son but people using VAR ignored that you can score with the upper half of your body. Then again Llorente being allowed to use his makes for the argument that under current rules you are allowed to use the arm in assistance to score. Yet again that means that Son is most definitely offside. Then we need to discuss the referee ignoring Rose effecting Bernardo's ability to score. He makes no contact with the ball, (referee did not give a corner hence indicating that Rose did not play the ball) but the referee decides that Rose flying into Bernardo is deemed as fair try at preventing a goal. The issue is not with VAR, but with application of the rules by referees
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It should only be your chest for me. Feet legs and stuff should not count. In athletics the athletes chest is what has to cross the line nothing else.So much easier for a officIan to see. Players have about 12 different boot colours now how do you decide whose orange boot was offside looking down the line ?
 
Also 4 goals scored first half. Spurs lad down injured twice.......soooo obviously 3 minutes added time WTF. We were robbed of at least 3 minutes there!
 
spanishblue said:
Deliberately or not ITS FUKIN HANDBALL
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I cannot understand how some City fans STILL don't know the rules. UEFA and their directive has been reiterated so many times in this thread, yet people are STILL claiming the handball was not deliberate (some blind muppets even claim it was not handball, despite CLEAR CAMERA EVIDENCE from other angles!).

For the umpteenth time guys, IT DOES NOT MATTER IF IT WAS DELIBERATE OR NOT. Spurs were ATTACKING, not defending.

The rules have been posted by others but ignore me and others. Research it yourself. That way, you might believe yourself, as some of you clearly don't trust me and several other posters.

Look, even the MUEN know the TRUTH....

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...all-news/var-handball-man-city-spurs-16148542
 
VAR might come in in the Premier League but the protests will be overwhelming. It wont last in its current form chiefly because of the damage it does to fans goal celebrations which is what we all go to see.

Technology has to be used, but not at the expense of interrupting the flow of the game.
 
Why are all replays/slow motion such poor quality?
Aren’t we in the age of 4/8k UHD?
Shouldn’t every image be crystal clear? As this is how it’s portrayed in slow motion UHD football adverts!
 
i for one will be bailing out of the game,i cant sit there and watch this nonsense every time a suspect goal is scored,under normal circumstances with just the ref we would have won 5-3 last night, with VAR if properly used it should have been 4-2, VAR has to be a 360 degree simulation of the incident which is viewed from all angles for it to work and improve the game.we managed for over 100 years with a ref and two linesmen and i'm quite sure we could do another 100 years, i feel cheated from last night not bitter at going out but cheated and that's not value for money
 
Does the referee get to view all the angles? If someone is manipulating which angles he sees that's really suspicious. I don't believe that is the case.

I believe they make best efforts to come to the right decision but it's a borderline process.

We can not be interrupting the game if we still have raging debates 24 hours later whether they got it right or not.
 
ballinio said:
Don’t blame him ,if you can’t celebrate a goal until some faceless , nameless wonder in a studio or caravan says you can then the games finished, i’ll be fucking it off as well , it’s not the same game any more.
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It will change (ruin) the game beyond recognition. After last night it has already. The fact that there can now only be muted goal celebrations until someone looking at the lead up to the goal and the goal itself, seeing things from umpteen different angles (that the crowd are not seeing), decides whether it stands or not, is the real killer. I said ages ago this is what would happen. In effect, for example, it means that every single goal from a corner could be disallowed (when whoever is in charge wants it to be) because there is no way there is ever a corner taken without anything going on that could seen as an infringement of some sort or another, with all the holding, pushing and shoving. In a lot of situations slow motion replays from every angle can be construed to show/achieve what you want them to. The very nature of the game demands that if the ref and the linesman haven't seen an infringement, in real time, then there isn't one. The argument for it was to correct 'clear and obvious' errors from the officials. The fact that neither of last nights situations were clear and obvious (and both went against us btw) destroys that argument. And the fact is, if those officials on the pitch and seeing things in real time had stuck with their immediate instinctive decisions at the time, we would now be in the semi final of the CL.
 
oakiecokie said:
That rule is not enforced until next season.
Think of Sergios goal at home to Arsenal (3rd goal) should that have been wiped off ? Another unintentional handball.
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Wrong, mate.

The rule is ALREADY in place for an team on the attack.

As has been repeated by me and SEVERAL other posters, Spurs were attacking, NOT defending.

Oh and Stuart Brennan in the MUEN describes the situation quite well. When the MUEN support the City view, that says A LOT!! Please do read it...

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...all-news/var-handball-man-city-spurs-16148542
 
gavvo said:
It will change (ruin) the game beyond recognition. After last night it has already. The fact that there can now only be muted goal celebrations until someone looking at the lead up to the goal and the goal itself, seeing things from umpteen different angles (that the crowd are not seeing), decides whether it stands or not, is the real killer. I said ages ago this is what would happen. In effect, for example, it means that every single goal from a corner could be disallowed (when whoever is in charge wants it to be) because there is no way there is ever a corner taken without anything going on that could seen as an infringement of some sort or another, with all the holding, pushing and shoving. In a lot of situations slow motion replays from every angle can be construed to show/achieve what you want them to. The very nature of the game demands that if the ref and the linesman haven't seen an infringement, in real time, then there isn't one. The argument for it was to correct 'clear and obvious' errors from the officials. The fact that neither of last nights situations were clear and obvious (and both went against us btw) destroys that argument. And the fact is, if those officials on the pitch and seeing things in real time had stuck with their immediate instinctive decisions at the time, we would now be in the semi final of the CL.
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100% Gavvo , said that myself , it’s at corners where they’ll fuck us over next year, i’m Done with the game .
 
Marvin said:
Does the referee get to view all the angles? If someone is manipulating which angles he sees that's really suspicious. I don't believe that is the case.

I believe they make best efforts to come to the right decision but it's a borderline process.

We can not be interrupting the game if we still have raging debates 24 hours later whether they got it right or not.
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At one point while reviewing himself the cam zoomed in and he was frustrated coz they kept on looping the same angle . If he had few options to view he would’ve made the correct decision.
 
A Uefa spokesperson simply said when asked to comment: “All relevant angles were made available to the referee to take his decision last night.”

No, they were not you bent ****s.
 
DTeacher said:
Wrong, mate.

The rule is ALREADY in place for an team on the attack.

As has been repeated by me and SEVERAL other posters, Spurs were attacking, NOT defending.

Oh and Stuart Brennan in the MUEN describes the situation quite well. When the MUEN support the City view, that says A LOT!! Please do read it...

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...all-news/var-handball-man-city-spurs-16148542
Click to expand...
BosnianBlue said:
A Uefa spokesperson simply said when asked to comment: “All relevant angles were made available to the referee to take his decision last night.”

No, they were not you bent ****s.
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UEFA’s response to the questions about the handball VAR assessment is nearly word-for-word what I predicted. It would be laughable if it wasn’t infuriating.
 
Kokonut1307 said:
UEFA provided clarification for the Telegraph where they highlight that ref's are told to rule out goals that directly go in off the hand. Yesterday the ref clearly indicated that he can't see a hand ball and it came off his hip. First of all I find it ridiculous that he is shown the worst angle. This is down to the interpretation of the referee to apply the rule and depending on who it is you get a different outcome. Not surprising the rule is changing because there is no difference in the ball ultimately going in via the hand or from the hand assisting in the control of it. If he permitted the goal then his decision raises an important question about what is offside. Aguero was ruled offside, which was correctly overturned according to the rule. However, if we compare it to the hand ball offence by Llorente one can rightfully argue that Eriksen's initiated pass barely clipping the City player still would have made it to Aguero and provided no difference to the outcome. Should that be offside? He did not gain an unfair advantage, and in no way greater of an advantage than Llorente with his use of his arm permitting the correct ricochet for their goal. If we are applying offsides by the book then how did Son's goal in their home game count? Half his body is offside but it is not deemed as a clear enough for VAR to conclude it is an obvious error. Which part of the body do you count as offside, because they clearly looked at his feet only otherwise the conclusion would have been that he is offside. Harry Kane was offside vs Chelsea in the same manner as Son but people using VAR ignored that you can score with the upper half of your body. Then again Llorente being allowed to use his makes for the argument that under current rules you are allowed to use the arm in assistance to score. Yet again that means that Son is most definitely offside. Then we need to discuss the referee ignoring Rose effecting Bernardo's ability to score. He makes no contact with the ball, (referee did not give a corner hence indicating that Rose did not play the ball) but the referee decides that Rose flying into Bernardo is deemed as fair try at preventing a goal. The issue is not with VAR, but with application of the rules by referees
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Thanks for that.
However the ref can continue with his inability to see an offence if he simply looks again at any view that denies his view of the ball at the time of impact.
Surely the views he should see must follow the ball if handball is suspected, or is that too simple?
 
SilverFox2 said:
Thanks for that.
However the ref can continue with his inability to see an offence if he simply looks again at any view that denies his view of the ball at the time of impact.
Surely the views he should see must follow the ball if handball is suspected, or is that too simple?
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Unfortunately, competence and integrity are well beyond UEFA’s capabilities.

The media also seem to be washing the controversies for the most part, mostly indicating both the handball and offside decisions were correct, even though both are dubious.

Can you imagine the media reaction if these same decisions had gone against Spurs?

Or — GASP — Liverpool?
 
shadygiz said:
same here mate, i said earlier in thread that i wont be chucking money at something i dont enjoy
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Couldn’t agree more, I’m fucking drained today coz of a massive high to a massive low, also embarrassing is the celebration which now feels ridiculous.
It’s beyond belief that a natural game played for over a century can be so influenced from afar. It’ll take about ten games next year before the penny drops that celebrating a goal will be pointless until it’s confirmed and then a few hurrahs are allowed.
Dead on its feet and lacking emotion football seriously will be killed
 
Mid Wales blue said:
Why are all replays/slow motion such poor quality?
Aren’t we in the age of 4/8k UHD?
Shouldn’t every image be crystal clear? As this is how it’s portrayed in slow motion UHD football adverts!
Click to expand...
The problem is the frame rate not the number of pixels in each frame.
Unless the camera equipment increases the frame rate slo mo is guessed rather than recorded is it not?
 
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