Liverpool thread 2018/19

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Copied is a long, detailed and pseudo-intellectual post on RAWK explaining why Heysel was not their fault. That club really is disgusting. Just fucking say sorry.

It beggars belief that it was ever deemed acceptable to hold a European Cup Final, or any major sporting event, in a stadium completely unfit for purpose. Elements from both fanbases were at fault for what unfolded, but pretty much everything seems to have failed on the day. Clearly, planning and preparation were woefully inadequate too. The perfect storm in many respects. Anything that could go wrong, did go wrong. It's easy and extremely lazy to simply blame Liverpool fans for what happened without actually looking deeper. Those who died, and all those who grieve for them to this day, deserve the truth. A minority of fans of both clubs are clearly culpable, but so too are those who were tasked with organising this event in a safe ground which was fit for purpose. Proper, considered preparation should have been in place. As it happened, all concerns about the stadium were wilfully ignored and all the numerous factors that contributed to this horrible disaster were left unaddressed, to run their course. With hindsight, the outcome was almost inevitable.

We all know how it goes when disasters happen. Organisations close ranks. People look for the convenient scapegoat. Fingers get pointed. Heads get placed in the sand. Blind eyes get turned. Of course, no one even tries to deny that a certain section of Liverpool fans directly contributed to the eventual outcome. But, so did the appalling actions of some of Juventus' own fans, the inactions of the police, the criminal neglect of those who 'organised' the Final, those who chose a crumbling relic of a ground to host the match despite fears being voiced about it and those who dismissed all concerns out of hand.

Pointing the finger at just one element/factor helps those who also contributed to squirm off the hook and off into the night. I helps those people to remain unaccountable for their neglect. It also betrays and disrespects every single victim of the dreadful tragedy that was Heysel. It betrays their grieving families too.
In Rome 1984 we saw where things might be heading. In Brussels 1985 we saw what happens when warnings and concerns are wilfully dismissed and people tasked with looking after the safety of thousands of people basically go to sleep on the job. We also saw how those in power wash their hands of responsibility, pick a handy scapegoat then absolve themselves of all responsibility. That, in itself, was also a warning sign of things to come after Hillsborough 1989.

Things of this magnitude don't just simply happen out of nowhere. They happen due to a catalogue of contributing factors all coming together at once. They come from neglect, and the ignoring of warnings and concerns. They come from people not taking responsibility. People not doing their jobs adequately. The actions of some fans from both clubs were the straw that broke the camels back, but make no mistake, there were many, many factors in place that allowed that eventuality to take place.


Does the stupid ignorant wanker not realise that it the old state of the stadium that actually saved so many fans, they were being crushed and trapped between the concrete wall and the feral souse mob. If the wall hadn't have collapsed then unfortunately we would have been looking at an even greater tragedy in terms of casualties.

From the Oliver Brown 30 year anniversary piece (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...-Juventus-minimal-reaction-prolongs-hurt.html)

"The wall had caved in under the weight of the seething human tumult. But it is a long-perpetuated fallacy that this collapse was the primary cause of 39 deaths. Most had perished through lack of oxygen in the desperate jam of bodies, and the wall's disintegration acted instead as the release of a pressure valve. It was at this juncture that the magnitude of the crisis was made manifest. The infernal scenes that assailed Brussels' underprepared emergency services belonged more to the aftermath of a medieval battle than to a sporting occasion on the outskirts of one of Europe's quieter capitals."
 
I can't see there being "firm on firm" type trouble in Madrid. But I can see boisterous fans getting into incidents with the local police who misread drunken antics as hooliganism.
 
Even now they are buying jarg tickets for Madrid for £30 knowing they may get them past any initial security checks.

Am i reading that right, there are fake tickets on sale for £30?

And 55,000 + fans traveling without tickets...

FFS
 
There was a problem regarding the English in the 80s. Liverpool were the worst but not the only club to cause issues when they travelled. The football culture in this country has generally changed and is far worse in other places, where bans have been minor in general. Hopefully the CL final passes without incident. Hopefully it is a good game and a good advert for English football. And hopefully Spurs get the job done.
100% mate. As much as Liverpool have done my tits in this season, I don't want to see anyone hurt. What I do want to see however is scouse tears at full time.
 
If there is any mither I'd like to see the game declared null and void dippers and spuds banned from Europe and some jail time for the guilty parties.
 
I can't see there being "firm on firm" type trouble in Madrid. But I can see boisterous fans getting into incidents with the local police who misread drunken antics as hooliganism.
From our own clubs experience of going there. The local constabulary have no issues with twatting fans because they can.
 
There’s no such thing as luck. Nor fate, destiny, omens or karma. It’s just preparation meeting opportunity or just pure physics and biomechanics.

A football is spherical and can bounce here or there, there are 22 players who can choose to or choose not to make efforts or make mistakes here and there, there are three officials making decisions that are often correct but sometimes incorrect. All of this coming together makes the chance of random things happening quite high.

“Luck” is something made up that the needy attribute to these random things happening in hindsight as some sort of justice or injustice depending on their viewpoint and allegiances.


And there was something between us and Liverpool this year: we achieved 1 more point, a +5 better GD, scored 6 more goals, we took 4 points off them and they only took one off us as we got a draw at their place and beat them at home.

You forgot to mention the 11mm!
 
Could you imagine the press conference questions Pep would be getting ahead of this final if he was in Klopp's position?

" So Pep, after all the money invested in building this team, if you lose will you be considered a failure? I mean this will be the fourth final in charge of Liverpool you have lost, not to mention throwing away at one stage a ten point lead to miss out on the title to Manchester City. It's a question that needs asking, some fan's would consider that a failure wouldn't they?"

If Pep was in charge of the buswreckers? Not a chance!

They’re one this country's media darlings, and as such will never have to answer any awkward questions, no matter who the manager is.
 
From our own clubs experience of going there. The local constabulary have no issues with twatting fans because they can.
So the countdown to the TV reporters finding a bloodied Liverpool fan 'We weren't doing nuthin, the cops just went for us' after a mob previously jumped a cop patrol of 2, has begun...
 
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As always, the statement from Liverpool FC about today's tragic anniversary manages to make no apology, deny any responsibility and even make it seem like a natural disaster.

Liverpool FC remembers the 39 football fans who lost their lives at Heysel Stadium in Belgium on this day 34 years ago.


The disaster occurred before the European Cup final between Liverpool and Juventus on May 29, 1985, when events in Block Z of the stadium tragically led to the deaths of 39 people - mostly Juventus supporters - and left hundreds more injured.

“Heysel will be forever in the minds of everyone connected with Liverpool Football Club and we will always remember those who lost their lives. We use this moment to pay our respects to all those who were impacted by the events of that day.
 
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As always, the statement from Liverpool FC about today's tragic anniversary manages to make no apology, deny any responsibility and even make it seem like a natural disaster.

Liverpool FC remembers the 39 football fans who lost their lives at Heysel Stadium in Belgium on this day 34 years ago.


The disaster occurred before the European Cup final between Liverpool and Juventus on May 29, 1985, when events in Block Z of the stadium tragically led to the deaths of 39 people - mostly Juventus supporters - and left hundreds more injured.

“Heysel will be forever in the minds of everyone connected with Liverpool Football Club and we will always remember those who lost their lives. We use this moment to pay our respects to all those who were impacted by the events of that day.

Always the victims!!
 
Copied is a long, detailed and pseudo-intellectual post on RAWK explaining why Heysel was not their fault. That club really is disgusting. Just fucking say sorry.

It beggars belief that it was ever deemed acceptable to hold a European Cup Final, or any major sporting event, in a stadium completely unfit for purpose. Elements from both fanbases were at fault for what unfolded, but pretty much everything seems to have failed on the day. Clearly, planning and preparation were woefully inadequate too. The perfect storm in many respects. Anything that could go wrong, did go wrong. It's easy and extremely lazy to simply blame Liverpool fans for what happened without actually looking deeper. Those who died, and all those who grieve for them to this day, deserve the truth. A minority of fans of both clubs are clearly culpable, but so too are those who were tasked with organising this event in a safe ground which was fit for purpose. Proper, considered preparation should have been in place. As it happened, all concerns about the stadium were wilfully ignored and all the numerous factors that contributed to this horrible disaster were left unaddressed, to run their course. With hindsight, the outcome was almost inevitable.

We all know how it goes when disasters happen. Organisations close ranks. People look for the convenient scapegoat. Fingers get pointed. Heads get placed in the sand. Blind eyes get turned. Of course, no one even tries to deny that a certain section of Liverpool fans directly contributed to the eventual outcome. But, so did the appalling actions of some of Juventus' own fans, the inactions of the police, the criminal neglect of those who 'organised' the Final, those who chose a crumbling relic of a ground to host the match despite fears being voiced about it and those who dismissed all concerns out of hand.

Pointing the finger at just one element/factor helps those who also contributed to squirm off the hook and off into the night. I helps those people to remain unaccountable for their neglect. It also betrays and disrespects every single victim of the dreadful tragedy that was Heysel. It betrays their grieving families too.
In Rome 1984 we saw where things might be heading. In Brussels 1985 we saw what happens when warnings and concerns are wilfully dismissed and people tasked with looking after the safety of thousands of people basically go to sleep on the job. We also saw how those in power wash their hands of responsibility, pick a handy scapegoat then absolve themselves of all responsibility. That, in itself, was also a warning sign of things to come after Hillsborough 1989.

Things of this magnitude don't just simply happen out of nowhere. They happen due to a catalogue of contributing factors all coming together at once. They come from neglect, and the ignoring of warnings and concerns. They come from people not taking responsibility. People not doing their jobs adequately. The actions of some fans from both clubs were the straw that broke the camels back, but make no mistake, there were many, many factors in place that allowed that eventuality to take place.

I couldn’t read it all, but I am left wondering what were the appalling actions of some of Juventus' own supporters?
 
I couldn’t read it all, but I am left wondering what were the appalling actions of some of Juventus' own supporters?

There were some Juventus hooligans,in fact one of them fired a starting pistol that he somehow smuggled into the stadium.
Also seem to remember the" English animals"banner.
So all the violence wasn't one way.

However despite the "Scouse washing" it's clear that their fans were bigger culprits.
Haven't given the Heysel disaster anything like the same importance as Hillsborough.

If they had,maybe some of temptation for rival supporters to knock them wouldn't be so easy.
 
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