Arteta

Back in the Bill Shankly, Joe Fagan, Bob Paisley days the Dippers were pretty successful with their policy of appointing successors to the leaving Manager from within the Club.

I have no doubt City’s management team have succession plans in place which has a list of potential candidates. Some of these will be from within the CFG (Arteta, Torrent),others will probably be ex players close to the Club (Vieira, Kompany) and there will some outsiders.

I suspect Arteta is being groomed as the successor and right now I think he has to be the favourite to take over from Pep. Personally, I think he would be a great choice.
 
Neville Kneville said:
I'm going off the comments by team mates & the impression he makes on those around him.

But also that imo, when the team has wobbled or individual defenders have gone to shit, he has often reappeared & in a short time, those players look decent again. Under all 3 managers it's happened.

That has always suggested to me, that it's him guiding them.

Of course that doesn't mean he can analyse a game or an opposition like Pep does & come up with a genius plan. But...if anyone can, he would be the most outstanding candidate so far, imo.

He seems to have the required presence, even the tv mafia won't take liberties with him. Bellamy actually said that in his opinion he was above the level of the football business & thought he would be a big figure outside.

But of course, if he can't coach, then he can't coach. So we'll have to wait & see.
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Oh yeah, agree with all that. I don't even have a logical reason as to why either, just one of those weird gut instinct things. If I was to try and put my finger on it (and im free-rolling here so im sorry if its rambley) it would simply be down to how unique I think Pep's coaching and belief in his system is. Plus his almost savant-like genius view of the game. I'm not really convinced Vinnie's had the same footballing education in terms of coaching or that he has that same commitment to a 'philosophy'. I've certainly never heard him passionately talk about the way he likes a game to be played anyway. He's never really talked a lot about tactics, coaching etc in general, hence why many were surprised he'd gone into coaching. Most thought he'd go into the wider business world - including fellow pros like Bellamy and Bernardo (I recall him saying he could go into politics), which would indicate that maybe even they didn't think he was set for a world of coaching.

Guardiola learned a lot from Cruyff's during his formative years and I think he developed a real hunger for that side of things. I think it literally consumed his life and it's what he was born to do. I don't feel Vinnie's the same and I'm not sure he could get us playing in the same Pep way as I'm not really sure he's been exposed to that style for long enough. He's won in other ways and in different systems and as a result I don't think he's particularly passionate about the way Guardiola plays. Not that he dislikes it, just that I can't imagine it's the be all and end all for him, for understandable reasons. I may be wrong, but for Guardiola it was instilled in him from a young, young age. Not to say that Vinnie can't do it, but it just feels like what Guardiola does stems from a life-long belief in a certain way, that he won't ever budge from. I feel Vinnie's style, whatever it is, won't be what Pep's is cos I think that comes from the individual himself.

Conversely, I think Vinnie will try and go for a Guardiola style, but find it doesn't always click and not be able to put his finger on it. And the answer will be cos he's simply not Pep. I think this is what he may find difficult. As a result I think he may actually find a different way, and then it could possibly be that that's not what Txiki and co want.

All of this could be bollocks of course...just a heavily baseless theory :)
 
twosips said:
Oh yeah, agree with all that. I don't even have a logical reason as to why either, just one of those weird gut instinct things. If I was to try and put my finger on it (and im free-rolling here so im sorry if its rambley) it would simply be down to how unique I think Pep's coaching and belief in his system is. Plus his almost savant-like genius view of the game. I'm not really convinced Vinnie's had the same footballing education in terms of coaching or that he has that same commitment to a 'philosophy'. I've certainly never heard him passionately talk about the way he likes a game to be played anyway. He's never really talked a lot about tactics, coaching etc in general, hence why many were surprised he'd gone into coaching. Most thought he'd go into the wider business world - including fellow pros like Bellamy and Bernardo (I recall him saying he could go into politics), which would indicate that maybe even they didn't think he was set for a world of coaching.

Guardiola learned a lot from Cruyff's during his formative years and I think he developed a real hunger for that side of things. I think it literally consumed his life and it's what he was born to do. I don't feel Vinnie's the same and I'm not sure he could get us playing in the same Pep way as I'm not really sure he's been exposed to that style for long enough. He's won in other ways and in different systems and as a result I don't think he's particularly passionate about the way Guardiola plays. Not that he dislikes it, just that I can't imagine it's the be all and end all for him, for understandable reasons. I may be wrong, but for Guardiola it was instilled in him from a young, young age. Not to say that Vinnie can't do it, but it just feels like what Guardiola does stems from a life-long belief in a certain way, that he won't ever budge from. I feel Vinnie's style, whatever it is, won't be what Pep's is cos I think that comes from the individual himself.

Conversely, I think Vinnie will try and go for a Guardiola style, but find it doesn't always click and not be able to put his finger on it. And the answer will be cos he's simply not Pep. I think this is what he may find difficult. As a result I think he may actually find a different way, and then it could possibly be that that's not what Txiki and co want.

All of this could be bollocks of course...just a heavily baseless theory :)
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If and when Pep does decide to leave us, do you think Txixi and Ferran will say adios, or do you think they are in for the long haul?
 
Keeper! said:
If and when Pep does decide to leave us, do you think Txixi and Ferran will say adios to, or do you think they are in for the long haul?
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Good question! I think they're paid enough and far too invested in the whole CFG thing to go though. They're literally building something that has never been done before so i think they enjoy it
 
twosips said:
Good question! I think they're paid enough and far too invested in the whole CFG thing to go though. They're literally building something that has never been done before so i think they enjoy it
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Agreed and so hope you are correct.

To loose all three would be a total disaster and could set us back big time.
 
Keeper! said:
If and when Pep does decide to leave us, do you think Txixi and Ferran will say adios, or do you think they are in for the long haul?
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twosips said:
Good question! I think they're paid enough and far too invested in the whole CFG thing to go though. They're literally building something that has never been done before so i think they enjoy it
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I don't think there's any chance they leave.

CFG is Soriano's baby, he wanted to start up sister clubs when he was at Barcelona and was told no, City said yes and then gave him the backing to grow it further than he could probably have imagined.

Txiki has the best job in world football, unprecedented power at the club, only answering to Khaldoon (no board, no shareholders, no members/socios), the biggest budget in football to deliver what he's asked, no requirement to face the media/fans and act like a spokesperson like some DoF's at big clubs.
 
twosips said:
Oh yeah, agree with all that. I don't even have a logical reason as to why either, just one of those weird gut instinct things. If I was to try and put my finger on it (and im free-rolling here so im sorry if its rambley) it would simply be down to how unique I think Pep's coaching and belief in his system is. Plus his almost savant-like genius view of the game. I'm not really convinced Vinnie's had the same footballing education in terms of coaching or that he has that same commitment to a 'philosophy'. I've certainly never heard him passionately talk about the way he likes a game to be played anyway. He's never really talked a lot about tactics, coaching etc in general, hence why many were surprised he'd gone into coaching. Most thought he'd go into the wider business world - including fellow pros like Bellamy and Bernardo (I recall him saying he could go into politics), which would indicate that maybe even they didn't think he was set for a world of coaching.

Guardiola learned a lot from Cruyff's during his formative years and I think he developed a real hunger for that side of things. I think it literally consumed his life and it's what he was born to do. I don't feel Vinnie's the same and I'm not sure he could get us playing in the same Pep way as I'm not really sure he's been exposed to that style for long enough. He's won in other ways and in different systems and as a result I don't think he's particularly passionate about the way Guardiola plays. Not that he dislikes it, just that I can't imagine it's the be all and end all for him, for understandable reasons. I may be wrong, but for Guardiola it was instilled in him from a young, young age. Not to say that Vinnie can't do it, but it just feels like what Guardiola does stems from a life-long belief in a certain way, that he won't ever budge from. I feel Vinnie's style, whatever it is, won't be what Pep's is cos I think that comes from the individual himself.

Conversely, I think Vinnie will try and go for a Guardiola style, but find it doesn't always click and not be able to put his finger on it. And the answer will be cos he's simply not Pep. I think this is what he may find difficult. As a result I think he may actually find a different way, and then it could possibly be that that's not what Txiki and co want.

All of this could be bollocks of course...just a heavily baseless theory :)
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That's all fair enough, but...

I don't think Pep is actually obsessed by his own 'system' & is constantly evolving it.

Imo, in the early days of his spell, his Bayern team were far better, in the flesh, than his Barca team was. Barca have Messi, Bayern didn't. End of story.

But Bayern were physically stronger & not scared to put crosses in.

He came here & tried stuff like Kolarov at the back, to spray passes around. Got dicked.

A year later, contrary to disciples of his book, he had an enormous great hulking back 4 & Fernandinho in front.

Last season we went to Anfield & Spurs in the CL & if not for two missed pens, would have come home with two classic Mourinho or Mancini style away performances. In some games we were 'knocking it into the corner' to be certain of the result, when points became more important than style.

Imo Pep's philosophy remains intact but he is adapting to his situation a lot more & balancing the technique with the physique & balancing craft with athleticism & pace.

So I think it's possible he is not far away from the point where he meets Vinny in philosphy. Maybe he's there already.
 
Neville Kneville said:
That's all fair enough, but...

I don't think Pep is actually obsessed by his own 'system' & is constantly evolving it.

Imo, in the early days of his spell, his Bayern team were far better, in the flesh, than his Barca team was. Barca have Messi, Bayern didn't. End of story.

But Bayern were physically stronger & not scared to put crosses in.

He came here & tried stuff like Kolarov at the back, to spray passes around. Got dicked.

A year later, contrary to disciples of his book, he had an enormous great hulking back 4 & Fernandinho in front.

Last season we went to Anfield & Spurs in the CL & if not for two missed pens, would have come home with two classic Mourinho or Mancini style away performances. In some games we were 'knocking it into the corner' to be certain of the result, when points became more important than style.

Imo Pep's philosophy remains intact but he is adapting to his situation a lot more & balancing the technique with the physique & balancing craft with athleticism & pace.

So I think it's possible he is not far away from the point where he meets Vinny in philosphy. Maybe he's there already.
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The philosophy never changes in regards to retaining possession and dominating games, that’ll never ever change as far as Pep is concerned.

The adapting (e.g. Anfield last season) was simply to play Bernardo in a slightly deeper midfield role to give us different angles to play out from the back as Liverpool’s front three play so narrow. Bernardo coming deeper meant Walker and Mendy could stay as wide as possible so we always had an “out” from Liverpool’s intense pressing. We struggled to break them down as we had one less player in attacking areas but the philosophy never changed, just the formation to enable us to play the usual way.

Spurs away in hindsight was clearly a “don’t lose” deviation from the philosophy BUT I think that was entirely down to the fixture schedule, injuries and trying to protect players for the run in. I certainly don’t think if we had everyone fit (match fit and not just available because they could walk without crutches) we would play any different to usual.
 
ctid1894 said:
The philosophy never changes in regards to retaining possession and dominating games, that’ll never ever change as far as Pep is concerned.

The adapting (e.g. Anfield last season) was simply to play Bernardo in a slightly deeper midfield role to give us different angles to play out from the back as Liverpool’s front three play so narrow. Bernardo coming deeper meant Walker and Mendy could stay as wide as possible so we always had an “out” from Liverpool’s intense pressing. We struggled to break them down as we had one less player in attacking areas but the philosophy never changed, just the formation to enable us to play the usual way.

Spurs away in hindsight was clearly a “don’t lose” deviation from the philosophy BUT I think that was entirely down to the fixture schedule, injuries and trying to protect players for the run in. I certainly don’t think if we had everyone fit (match fit and not just available because they could walk without crutches) we would play any different to usual.
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And at the end of games, keeping it in the corners, direct ball from the goalkeeper with flickons, signing huge fast players at fullback etc etc.

We do not always play like Barca & neither did Bayern Munich, therefore, imo IF Vinny had the coaching talent, it is possible he would meet Pep's 'philosophy' & the adaptations of where it is now, & next, rather than where it used to be & thus not suffer from his lack of a Barca background. Is my point.
 
Neville Kneville said:
And at the end of games, keeping it in the corners, direct ball from the goalkeeper with flickons, signing huge fast players at fullback etc etc.

We do not always play like Barca & neither did Bayern Munich, therefore, imo IF Vinny had the coaching talent, it is possible he would meet Pep's 'philosophy' & the adaptations of where it is now, & next, rather than where it used to be & thus not suffer from his lack of a Barca background. Is my point.
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My interpretation rightly or wrongly is that the ‘philosophy’ so to speak is winning, by playing attractive attacking possession football and regaining possession as quickly as possible when you lose it.

The adaptations for the Premier League (e.g. huge fast fullbacks) are simply a different way of implementing the same philosophy. We’re still winning playing attractive attacking football and regaining possession as quickly as possible, it’s just we use huge fast fullbacks because Premier League teams are far more physical and referees are far more lenient when it comes to opponents jumping into, pushing/pulling and essentially fouling our players with no punishment.

In terms of keeping the ball in the corners, I’ve seen Barcelona and Bayern both do that under Pep, maybe not taking the piss for half an hour like we did at Old Trafford but not far short. Please don’t ask for examples I’m an old man and my memory isn’t that good!! The long balls and flick ons are different, I can only think that he’s never had someone with the long passing range and consistency of Ederson to be able to utilise it as another attacking option.
 
If any further proof was needed.....that Vinny is the man to succeed Pep,then watch the mini series on City TV.
Wow,if ever a man was born to inspire and lead.....
 
donkeys years ago this sort of system worked as in assistant taking over from manager...

but now the desperate clubs around the PL that change mangers year in year out will clutch on to anything to survive or get success. I think there will be to much temptation for Arteta to earn a big salary rather than hang on to see if he could take over from pep.

But there will never be another pep no matter who takes the reigns, the guy is a one off. I just hope whoever takes over from him can still have some of the pep closing down plus put there own spin on it.
 
FantasyIreland said:
If any further proof was needed.....that Vinny is the man to succeed Pep,then watch the mini series on City TV.
Wow,if ever a man was born to inspire and lead.....
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I can't imagine there were many dry eyes after his farewell speech, and his rallying cry before the final game was a thing of beauty.

His time at Anderlecht will show us whether he has the tactical nouse, all the indicators are good, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility we might see him back here as manager, but nothing is done on sentiment at City.
 
No denying Arteta is learning from the master but I can see Vinnie coming back to manage us in another 3 or 4 years, he is doing the right thing going off to get some experience working on his own for a while first...!
 
FantasyIreland said:
If any further proof was needed.....that Vinny is the man to succeed Pep,then watch the mini series on City TV.
Wow,if ever a man was born to inspire and lead.....
Click to expand...

being able to make a speech doesn't mean you can manage.

I'm sure many great speech givers over the years have tried and failed.

Ultimately it will be whether he can be fluid and tactically astute. Everything else is just an add on.
 
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